Ok so whats so wrong with China?

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#31
It's not a snob thing at all with me. If I'm going to buy something from China, it had better be CHEAP. Dooney, Coach, Brahmin and Stone Mountain ALL made a profit manufacturing in this country, and then they shifted production overseas while also keeping their prices high. That's a money game this consumer isn't willing to participate in. Then there are the serious issues to consider.

China cheats in the global marketplace by devaluing their currency. That's immoral on their part, and I also consider it immoral on the part of companies that make an even bigger profit but still charge luxury prices.

China doesn't REALLY cooperate in enforcing copyright laws, and a lot of these illegal products are supporting criminals in general and terrorists in particular. I don't buy fakes, but plenty of people do.

If I'm going to be buying a handbag, I want to support jobs in this country or in Europe whenever possible. I want the craft to survive and not shift 100% to china. A lot of jobs have been lost in this country due to the outsourcing, and I refuse to reward the companies that gladly took my neighbor's job overseas. BTW, I live right next door to where Stone Mountain handbags were once made.

I also believe that if you're going to be paying luxury prices, it should be coming from a country where someone earned a decent wage cutting and stitching it up. Coach has a bag out there that's $800, and since it's made in China, there's NO excuse for the price to be that absurd.

I will NEVER buy a Coach, Dooney, Stone Mountain or foreign-made Brahmin. If it comes from China, it had better be one cheap bag.
 
#32
You have a point. I've read that China's environmental problems are some of the worst in the world.

jane said:
Leather tanning is one of the worst possible things for the environment, so buying quality bags and shoes made in North America or Europe, where the environmental standards are much higher than in China can be seen as a responsible decision.
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#34
Give me a break about environmentalism. China may be the #2 polluter in the world but guess who's #1: USA. And we're tiny compared to China.

And guess who owns the technology for environmentally-friendly production: American corporations.

And you want to talk morality? Let's talk about other technology American corporations own as their personal intellectual property: the ability to grow corn in any environment, including desolate parts of STARVING AFRICA. Do you see us giving them that technology? Hell no. Read up on it.

IMMORAL to DEVALUE currency? The USA was the one that first insisted China PEG their currency to the dollar -- they just stopped pegging it to the dollar this past year. CHEATS the global marketplace? Uhhh --- the global marketplace practically depends on China for its cheap goods. There is nothing immoral or illegal about it. You think we wouldn't be on China's ASS the minute they did something we didn't approve of? Example: How about the pressure we put on China to forgive Japan's war debts?

Ammietwist, I can't tell you how ignorant and uneducated you sound. I don't mean to be insulting, but you do need to get your facts straight.

Just because a few dollars a day to you is not a "decent wage" (yes it won't buy your LV bags) it is a LIVING wage for Chinese people.

Listen, you may carry designer bags but you clearly don't know crap about economics. Do you know why Christie's just opened a Hong Kong office and sold a tiny soup bowl from the Qing dynasty for $27 MILLION dollars? Because not just "cheap" stuff comes out of or goes into China.

You sound like a nationalist, and generally ridiculous. I'd love to hear your facts about how China is cheating the global marketplace, I'd love to hear why you think China is only capable of producing cheap goods when for thousands of years it has given the world countless architectural, artistic, and literary gifts.
 
#35
Just a disclaimer: I'm about as patriotic as any American because this country has definitely given me and my family opportunities I never would have gotten in China.

I'm a born and bred California girl, and I would defend *any* country against allegations of its ability to produce nothing but cheap goods.

Ammietwist, you're completely self-defeating. You want people to earn a "decent wage," but you refuse to pay for anything "coming out China unless it's cheap." Seriously, tell me where your logic lies.
 
#36
IntlSet said:
Ammietwist, you're completely self-defeating. You want people to earn a "decent wage," but you refuse to pay for anything "coming out China unless it's cheap." Seriously, tell me where your logic lies.
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IntlSet - You have no idea how much I agree with you on this.

While I raised some questions in my post on page 1, I stated that I didn't know the answers to them. Please, please, please... everyone... either raise questions and ask for others' assistance who might be more knowledgeable or do the research to support what you're saying. No one likes to be corrected and no one likes to do the correcting.
 
#37
Yeah, I totally apologize... I genuinely am not trying to be arrogant or snide. I'd stand up for any country regarding these issues.

Anyway, this isn't a political forum, I apologize.
 
#38
Quotes are by IntlSet:

"Give me a break about environmentalism. China may be the #2 polluter in the world but guess who's #1: USA. And we're tiny compared to China."

Did you also know that America is 40% of the world's economy? Did you also know that we've reduced emissions far more that the Kyoto Treaty wanted?

"And guess who owns the technology for environmentally-friendly production: American corporations."

Your point is?

"And you want to talk morality? Let's talk about other technology American corporations own as their personal intellectual property: the ability to grow corn in any environment, including desolate parts of STARVING AFRICA. Do you see us giving them that technology? Hell no. Read up on it. "

I'm well aware of all that, and do you want to talk about the tens of millions that are dead from Malaria because NO ONE in the world will start up the production of DDT? It's not JUST us, and I don't recall getting on a high horse about all things American.

"IMMORAL to DEVALUE currency? The USA was the one that first insisted China PEG their currency to the dollar -- they just stopped pegging it to the dollar this past year."

When China goes to countries ALL OVER THE WORLD and recruits business like this, and it's been going on for decades, that's OUR doing? Economics is an extremely complicated thing, but China is hardly playing fair.

"CHEATS the global marketplace? Uhhh --- the global marketplace practically depends on China for its cheap goods. There is nothing immoral or illegal about it."

I didn't say there was, but do you want to talk about WHY most of these goods are coming from one country when we could also be dealing with other countries in Asia, or Central and South America?

"Ammietwist, I can't tell you how ignorant and uneducated you sound. I don't mean to be insulting, but you do need to get your facts straight."

I have my facts straight, and I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth (keyboard).

"Just because a few dollars a day to you is not a "decent wage" (yes it won't buy your LV bags) it is a LIVING wage for Chinese people."

I don't think I'm evil for wanting to keep leather craftspeople all over the U.S. and Europe EMPLOYED. Let me tell you something. My business deals with items that can NO LONGER be made because the craftspeople aren't around anymore. I find that disturbingly sad. I'm not talking obsolete skills either.

"Listen, you may carry designer bags but you clearly don't know crap about economics. Do you know why Christie's just opened a Hong Kong office and sold a tiny soup bowl from the Qing dynasty for $27 MILLION dollars? Because not just "cheap" stuff comes out of or goes into China."

When did I EVER say that China can't produce a wonderful item? Honey, I've got a house full of Chinese antiques, and they're stunning. What I DID say is that when it comes to something like a handbag, article of clothing and such like that, it had better be cheap. If the manufacturing cost has been reduced that much, then the price shouldn't remain the same.

"You sound like a nationalist"

How can I be a nationalist and support European business? That's contradictory.

"I'd love to hear your facts about how China is cheating the global marketplace"

I stated that already.

"I'd love to hear why you think China is only capable of producing cheap goods when for thousands of years it has given the world countless architectural, artistic, and literary gifts."

I never said that. I'll repeat myself just so I'm clear. IF you're going to drastically cut the labor costs, then the price should be cut as well. Companies are telling us all the time that it's a cost saving measure...so when does it hit the consumer? And I'd really like to know when I put down China's history, architecture, art or anything else.

I have NOTHING against people earning a living, and I'm hardly a nationalist, but if I can support my neighbor, I try to. Those good jobs at Stone Mountain were real, and they're gone forever. Or don't those people matter?
 
#39
Regarding American environmental technology: if they insist on selling their intellectual property for a price that nobody can afford (China among the list of countries that need this technology), they can't be as environmentally-friendly as we want them to be. It's easy to say, "Why can't these countries develop their own technology?" They're still decades and decades behind, it's totally impossible for them to catch up to our pace without some help. So if the concern is the environment, then let's share our technology. If the concern is profit and to hell with the o-zone.... well, that's why intellectual prop. lawyers are so wealthy, right?

You're welcome to have the last word on the matter. It takes all kinds to make up the world, after all.
 
#41
No one should start producing DDT again. Yes, it is the best mosquito killer ever developed, but guess what, it also wiped out millions of other animals, including huge numbers of birds whose eggshells underdeveloped and never hatched. Read "Silent Spring."
 
#42
jane said:
No one should start producing DDT again. Yes, it is the best mosquito killer ever developed, but guess what, it also wiped out millions of other animals, including huge numbers of birds whose eggshells underdeveloped and never hatched. Read "Silent Spring."
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agreed, i think it takes quite a short-sighted person to advocate the use of DDT.

and i think jane's point is that we can't blame china for a lot of its shortcoming because of the fact that it is our corporations that are holding back a lot of the technology from them that could potentially make up for them.

and i'd love to see where it says we actually account for 40% of all of the world's economic activity, because i think that's just patently untrue. what do, though, is consume and waste way more than our fair share.
 
#43
Ammietwist said:
I have NOTHING against people earning a living, and I'm hardly a nationalist, but if I can support my neighbor, I try to. Those good jobs at Stone Mountain were real, and they're gone forever. Or don't those people matter?
Click to expand...

i think it's easy to look at the small picture on outsourcing and say it's a horrible thing, but when you actually get down to the numbers, outsourcing creates MORE jobs in america than it takes away. i'd also figured i'd be cute and novel and actually cite a source for what i claim:

http://money.cnn.com/2004/03/30/news/economy/outsourcing/

it's real easy. all you do is go to google.com, type in the topic you have crazy claims about which to make, and then look through what you get for a reliable, established organization that has proof of what you claim.

i know actually having proof is tres gauche in the world of Fox News and the Bush administration, but i thought i'd throw that out there since you seem to have quite a few claims to make with no evidence of factual support.
 
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