Volynka Russian Leather

[Pautinka]

I wanted to post that first article but the pictures of the H bags are wrong. That Kelly is made of sikkim/sakkam, and that Sac a Depeches is made of leathers other than the shipwreck Russia leather.
Also, OT, but Hey! Thanks for the Trans-Siberian trip tips you gave me last year [emoji813]

I'm no H bags expert but I noticed the Depeches was incorrect! Interesting article though.
You are welcome. If you decided to go PM me and let me know what you thought!!! [emoji847]

 

[Pautinka]

I think the main source book on this leather is:

http://www.editions-monelle-hayot.com/en/livre/cuir-de-russie/

It is credited at the end of the Hermes article.

Fabulous. Thank you!

 

[PJW5813]

I wanted to post that first article but the pictures of the H bags are wrong. That Kelly is made of sikkim/sakkam, and that Sac a Depeches is made of leathers other than the shipwreck Russia leather.
Also, OT, but Hey! Thanks for the Trans-Siberian trip tips you gave me last year

I agree, I thought it was not 100% correct.
Similarly the Russian Leather Key Fobs seem like the endless supply of small plates from the Nanking cargo.

ALSO
I'm pleased Liberte was able to give an online link to the Hermes magazine article.
Allanrvj, sorry I was unco-operative with that.

 

[Liberté]

I'm aware of Moynat we have a stand alones ad concessions in London. It's just this particular Gabi, in this particular leather that escaped my notice.

What I don't get is that this batch (sunk off the coast of Britain on Plymouth Sound by a Russian ship) was reindeer according to George Cleverley and 'Vintage Watches (see below) but the leather H tans is not reindeer and yet they are doing everything to mimic the original sunk leather. How may Russian ships were sunk carrying 'Volyanka' leather were there then? Is this whole story/hype 10% trad. Russian leather tanning recipe and 90% 'romance'?

Noone knows the traditional recipe, the production was a victim of the Russian revolution so there's no continuation/tradition in production, but they are able to guess how it might have been based on chemical anlysis and notes from back in the day... You might say the romance to trad. ratio is somewhat similar between volynka leather and the traditional savoir faire at moynat. Production was disrupted , but they're trying to recreate it with what they know. Certains things I guess were deemed less important in the process, such as the base for the leather. I can't imagine that it's very difficult to get reindeer leather if they'd tried.


EDIT:

So I was absolutely sure I had seen Hermès items in cuir de russie before. Here are a few items that were up for auction:

Pochette and pouch
Watch
Pochette with horse head
Pochette from the 30s
GM leather wallet

 

[Pautinka]

I agree, I thought it was not 100% correct.
Similarly the Russian Leather Key Fobs seem like the endless supply of small plates from the Nanking cargo.

ALSO
I'm pleased Liberte was able to give an online link to the Hermes magazine article.
Allanrvj, sorry I was unco-operative with that.

Perhaps the keyring fobs are from small offcuts? I am sure every teensy scrap will be used - and I like to believe in the UK Trades Description Act!

 

[allanrvj]

Noone knows the traditional recipe, the production was a victim of the Russian revolution so there's no continuation/tradition in production, but they are able to guess how it might have been based on chemical anlysis and notes from back in the day... You might say the romance to trad. ratio is somewhat similar between volynka leather and the traditional savoir faire at moynat. Production was disrupted , but they're trying to recreate it with what they know. Certains things I guess were deemed less important in the process, such as the base for the leather. I can't imagine that it's very difficult to get reindeer leather if they'd tried.


EDIT:

So I was absolutely sure I had seen Hermès items in cuir de russie before. Here are a few items that were up for auction:

Pochette and pouch
Watch
Pochette with horse head
Pochette from the 30s
GM leather wallet

Wow, these are gorgeous items from very vintage Hermes! But they look more similar to Moynat's Imperial Calfskin than Hermes's Volynka, in that they are much more dark red and uniform in color (almost like Rouge H) like the Imperial Calfskin than the spotty, brownish red Volynka. Also the embossing is really uniform and small, making it look like lizard scales.

 

[xiaoxiao]

Wow, these are gorgeous items from very vintage Hermes! But they look more similar to Moynat's Imperial Calfskin than Hermes's Volynka, in that they are much more dark red and uniform in color (almost like Rouge H) like the Imperial Calfskin than the spotty, brownish red Volynka. Also the embossing is really uniform and small, making it look like lizard scales.
View attachment 4173648 View attachment 4173649 View attachment 4173650 View attachment 4173651

It almost looks like lizard to me... maybe because of the patina? I don’t know.., I just can’t imagine it being soft at all!

 

[allanrvj]

I think the main source book on this leather is:

http://www.editions-monelle-hayot.com/en/livre/cuir-de-russie/

It is credited at the end of the Hermes article.

Thanks for this. I googled it and landed on the book's photographer's website with some of the images used in the book. We know that these two are Hermes, the first one being from the auction posted by @Liberté, and the second one has the stamp on it:


And I'm assuming this one is, too, because it just looks like the Faco clutch from H

 

[FreddieMac]

I’m afraid I don’t have any further interesting information to add, but just wanted to say that it’s been fascinating reading through the last couple pages and all the additional information you’ve all uncovered!

All really quite impressive!

 

[allanrvj]

Found a picture of the Sac a Depeches and Kelly that were made with the Russian leather from the sunken ship (Metta Catharina, 1786). The picture is from Le Monde Hermes, Spring Summer 2012. I wish there were bigger, more detailed pictures.

 

[Pautinka]

Well, I received my little key fob. All I can say is that one of the H items made in this leather must have been to die for. I literally sat all evening last night sniffing away at my little piece of leather. Think lapsang souchong mixed with malt whisky barrel and tobacco. I wonder if the newer items will have the same scent?

 

[allanrvj]

Well, I received my little key fob. All I can say is that one of the H items made in this leather must have been to die for. I literally sat all evening last night sniffing away at my little piece of leather. Think lapsang souchong mixed with malt whisky barrel and tobacco. I wonder if the newer items will have the same scent? View attachment 4178624

Incredible that a leather soaked in saltwater for 200 years still has the scent

P.S. I always sniff my Russia kip notebook whenever I'm watching TV. lol

 

[Pautinka]

Incredible that a leather soaked in saltwater for 200 years still has the scent

P.S. I always sniff my Russia kip notebook whenever I'm watching TV. lol

Sniffers of the world unite!

 

[allanrvj]

Apologies for bumping this thread but I just found a confirmation that indeed the tannery where Tanner Bates get their Russian Kip leather, J&FJ Baker, is the one producing Volynka for Hermès.

I don't read French so I'll just post the Google-translated part of the L'Eperon article about the book, Cuir de Russie: Mémoire du tan by Sophie Mouquin:

"Elise Blouet, a biologist and restorer of leather and metals, then goes on campaign to find the recipe of the original Russian leather, that nobody knows ... The investigation of Elise will be long, it will federate the experts of Hermès with researchers in chemistry and historians, craftsmen for a thousand and one tests delicate, uncertain, until the alliance with tannery Baker in Devon in England... The luxurious brand is also inspired by this adventure since Hermès uses this tanned leather in England for their new range Volynka leather, available from January"

This is a fascinating video showing how J&FJ Baker tans their hide using centuries-old oak tanning methods, although for Volynka/Russia Kip, a combination of oak, willow, and birch barks is used:


And here one can see how the criss-cross pattern of the Volynka/Russian Kip is achieved by using rollers:

 

[Pautinka]

Apologies for bumping this thread but I just found a confirmation that indeed the tannery where Tanner Bates get their Russian Kip leather, J&FJ Baker, is the one producing Volynka for Hermès.

I don't read French so I'll just post the Google-translated part of the L'Eperon article about the book, Cuir de Russie: Mémoire du tan by Sophie Mouquin:

"Elise Blouet, a biologist and restorer of leather and metals, then goes on campaign to find the recipe of the original Russian leather, that nobody knows ... The investigation of Elise will be long, it will federate the experts of Hermès with researchers in chemistry and historians, craftsmen for a thousand and one tests delicate, uncertain, until the alliance with tannery Baker in Devon in England... The luxurious brand is also inspired by this adventure since Hermès uses this tanned leather in England for their new range Volynka leather, available from January"

This is a fascinating video showing how J&FJ Baker tans their hide using centuries-old oak tanning methods, although for Volynka/Russia Kip, a combination of oak, willow, and birch barks is used:


And here one can see how the criss-cross pattern of the Volynka/Russian Kip is achieved by using rollers:

Here is my Tanner Bates bag (received this afternoon) made in the russia leather which they get from the tannery you mention in that really interesting article Allan. I have put my original 1786 keyring on top for comparison. Not a bad match in colour and pattern. @papertiger this may interest you too after you mentioning their rugged bags in another handbag thread. I asked for some changes which they happily did.
I am choked with the cold so am unable to comment on the scent yet but aesthetically I am pleased for what it cost (£245). Perhaps a cheaper option before committing to H? [emoji4]