In China there are dogs farms where they raise dogs for skins and skin them alive. That is beyond unethical, pure evil.
Is ostrich leather ever ethical? If so, what brands?
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I agree. What was acceptable in the past is now neither permissible nor particularly desirable.
I think leather is a valuable good in and of itself tbh. There are important artistic and craft elements that come with beautiful special leathers, much as metal smiths appreciate different metals.
Embossing regular leathers for exotic effect is great and I love to buy these items. However I think only a philistine-at-heart will deny others the right to work with exotic leathers of these are managed in a humane and environmentally aware way.
I understand why the argument for ‘by product ’- only leather exists, as an attempt to minimise harm and human intervention in animals well being and also an attempt to respect the animal by minimising waste. However I think the argument is faulty. The human population is not down to its last meal of cow, alligator or chicken and I think the worlds of art and beauty are done a disservice if we pretend we must eat everything on our plate. I would hope that any animal farming industries would utilise their animals efficiently. I know there are many well cared for pets living a great life in spite of debilitating allergies thanks to the availability of exotic meat pet foods. Just an example.
Mostly I don’t want to live in a world of plastic bags lol.
It is not legal in my state, either. I was surprised to learn that it is illegal in 3 states in the US.
Endangered wild animals such as elephant, tiger and tortoise / turtle are so precious and iconic that the idea of skinning them really icks me out.
In theory I suppose if they were farmed in a way that didn’t interfere with their life cycle and natural relationships too much, and were killed in a very humane way I ‘shouldn’t’ have a problem with it but I do. These animals are too precious and endangered to be trivialised and farmed. Their numbers and their wild home lands need building up to a respectable and flourishing level before I could get my head around farming them for meat and skin.
ETA: and how you could ever farm and kill elephants humanely completely eludes me - they are waaay too smart to be managed as farmed animals in an ethical way.
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I am very sleepy and will probably misstate this, but I think elephants are still used in some tribes. I could be wrong. But one elephant taken every now and then to feed a tribe, and then have the leather used, in areas where their numbers are plentiful, that's a whole different conversation.
You'll find messed up things in every single country. As someone who lived in multiple cities in China for most of my life, I can say that this is NOT a thing-- at least in the way that it's often portrayed in western media. The main thing it does is perpetuate racism and prejudice (even implicitly), and I'd be careful about that.
I hear what you are saying and it is an interesting conversation as there is a cultural heritage issue as well … but numbers aren’t plentiful.
Same issue of tribal / cultural issues with whales, sea turtles. I hate seeing photographs of people eating turtle eggs even if they are dressed up in historical tribal dress. The turtles are too precious. Endangered is endangered and cruelty is cruelty. In my opinion of course.
I think we should talk about animal welfare. There is a great need for the conversation. Bear bile farming in Vietnam is ending and I say good! And that has no reflection on my warm feelings towards my Vietnamese friends and acquaintances in my view. I have a strong feeling that as they are such nice and reasonable people they probably abhor bile farming too. My closest Vietnamese friend I have spoken to her about dog eating and she is very strenuous in her opinion where I only dare to tread lightly.
You know considering your post and specific example and was thinking tribal people with knowledge may be very careful and not choose a breeding elephant.
Perhaps they do what they can to minimise trauma and stress to the animal and her herd - or maybe they don’t.
Some tribal / inherited practices are very harmful (i nominate turtle egg eating haha) and some are quite careful, considered and sustainable. It really depends on the circumstances and case-by-case doesn’t it.
We live in a world where historic behaviours and assumptions are being deeply questioned and rapidly changed against new criteria. I would really love animal welfare to be included in that process.
Sorry for hogging the conversation. I don’t mean to talk to myself but suspect everyone else is asleep!
I find PETA to be on the absolute extreme of animal rights/welfare. They will use shock tactics to sway consumers but not actually have the facts to back things up. They have recently been vocal in Australia about our farmers who are battling a mice plague. Thousands of them! PETA suggested that they be re-homed, not exterminated...
As for Ostrich, if it's a major food source, then I think their hide as a by-product should be used. As long as the ostriches are treated well and humanely processed, I am OK with it. As I get older, I do tend to think deeper about things.
As for Ostrich, if it's a major food source, then I think their hide as a by-product should be used. As long as the ostriches are treated well and humanely processed, I am OK with it. As I get older, I do tend to think deeper about things.
I agree with you that we should talk about animal welfare. My point was to be careful about associating an entire country with labels like "beyond unethical" and "pure evil," as if acts of animal cruelty doesn't happen in places like the US. It's definitely something that needs to be talked about, and I don't think there's enough transparency around how animals are really treated (not just for the fashion industry, but also for science experimentation).
I think that, as with murder, we will never totally stamp out individual acts of wanton cruelty and disposal or behaviour.
However we should rightly be concerned with cruel behaviours from governments or industry / manufacturing. Cultural norms and traditions should also be called out in my view.
I don't trust PETA. Not only they are extreme but they also do propaganda and lie sometimes, I wouldn't go into details but you can google it.
I totally agree with this. PETA is one of the organisations that have kill-shelters. I also wouldn't buy new exotic anything and I only buy fur from second-hand market. I just feel better that I'm recycling the 'unwanted' items.