How much should I offer for 1.78 carat diamond studs, SI2, H color?

[DS2006]

Awesome! If they send it to you, post the reports and Ame and I will help you look at them. I am afraid you may be right about it just being an appraisal by an AGS affiliated jeweler, and those can be inflated especially as to value and sometimes with the specs.

One time before I got on a diamond forum and learned about diamond quality and grading, I bought a pair of 1.5 ctw studs from a very nice couple at a jewelry show. The diamonds were said to be H SI. Being overly trusting, I bought them and wore them for a few years, and then I had another jeweler look at them and tell me they were I1. There were no dark inclusions, but feathers (cracks) are usually hard to see but very unacceptable to me in less than VS clarity. So I sold them to a different jeweler in trade for a watch. Fortunately I learned about diamonds and never made that mistake again! That was a case of thinking I was getting a good deal when I really ended up losing money!

 

[ame]

If, in fact, they are NOT the AGS grading reports, and are just appraisals with an AGS-affiliated jeweler, you need to strongly consider if you want to proceed. If they told you up front these were AGS graded stones with reports, that's a misrepresentation because certed stones are not the same as appraised-as.

 

[nicole0612]

Awesome! If they send it to you, post the reports and Ame and I will help you look at them. I am afraid you may be right about it just being an appraisal by an AGS affiliated jeweler, and those can be inflated especially as to value and sometimes with the specs.

One time before I got on a diamond forum and learned about diamond quality and grading, I bought a pair of 1.5 ctw studs from a very nice couple at a jewelry show. The diamonds were said to be H SI. Being overly trusting, I bought them and wore them for a few years, and then I had another jeweler look at them and tell me they were I1. There were no dark inclusions, but feathers (cracks) are usually hard to see but very unacceptable to me in less than VS clarity. So I sold them to a different jeweler in trade for a watch. Fortunately I learned about diamonds and never made that mistake again! That was a case of thinking I was getting a good deal when I really ended up losing money!

Thank you! I would love to get your opinion once I have the documents. The jeweler who originally procured the stones only purchases stones that are GIA or AGS graded (which I know because my engagement ring and wedding ring diamonds were purchased by him and then later mounted into the settings), but I just sent a message to the seller to make sure that she is using this original grading rather than a more lax grading by some other jeweler or by whoever appraised the diamonds. What happened to you with the I1 stones is a good lesson! I am so glad I asked before purchasing. I will definitely wait for the official documentation and stipulate the sale on that.

 

[nicole0612]

If, in fact, they are NOT the AGS grading reports, and are just appraisals with an AGS-affiliated jeweler, you need to strongly consider if you want to proceed. If they told you up front these were AGS graded stones with reports, that's a misrepresentation because certed stones are not the same as appraised-as.

Thank you! The jeweler who originally procured the stones only purchases stones that are GIA or AGS graded (which I know because he explained this to me prior to procuring multiple different options for the larger stones for my engagement ring and wedding ring diamonds, and they all came with GIA or AGS documents, then once I chose the diamonds he mounted them into the settings). I just sent a message to the seller to make sure that she is using this original grading rather than a more lax grading by some other jeweler or by whoever appraised the diamonds. I let her know that I will wait for the official AGS documentation and stipulate the sale on that. I would love to get your opinion once I have the documents later this week.

 

[cdtracing]

Just make sure the stones themselves are actually graded by AGS. Just because whoever appraised them was trained by GIA or AGS doesn't mean a thing. Those stones being represented as AGS graded should come with reports. You can make sure those stones match the reports, as well. Make the sale contingent on the reports matching the stones AND the stones having a legit grading report from AGS and or GIA, and being represented properly.

Going into stuff like this without being well educated is unfortunately asking for trouble. Get yourself a loupe, learn how to use it, and know what you're looking for. Understanding cut quality and reports is also something worth picking up.

If, in fact, they are NOT the AGS grading reports, and are just appraisals with an AGS-affiliated jeweler, you need to strongly consider if you want to proceed. If they told you up front these were AGS graded stones with reports, that's a misrepresentation because certed stones are not the same as appraised-as.

Ame is giving great advise. Insurance appraisals mean nothing & if these are being represented as AGS graded, then they should come with the AGS certs. And the stones should match the certs.

 

[lilmountaingirl]

I am very doubtful that those are AGS graded at that price, and they probably are lower in either color or clarity if there is no accurate grading. It is impossible to know their value without grading from either GIA or AGS. If they are saying SI2, they very likely are I1 and I would be very cautious.

I find stones all the time with those specs, with girdle inscriptions from legit labs, for that price.

 

[lilmountaingirl]

In my opinion AGS has not always been a great lab. They used to have some problems with being off in their grading. I feel they have gotten much better, and excel in their cut grades now but ten or fifteen years ago that wasn't the case. So if they are AGS certed and the cert is old, you might want to get a second opinion. There are independent GIA or AGS appraisers who I think you can trust and don't necessarily need a lab cert. For instance I use an appraiser who posts a lot on another jewelry forum and he's always spot on. So I don't necessarily agree that everything has to be certed but I have someone I trust who's good with appraisals and not everyone has access to that.

 

[ame]

They all go through "periods" of, shall we say, strictness. But in the last decade at least, AGS has been pretty tight, esp on cut. GIA does not grade cut in the same manner, and I don't take their "cut grade" seriously. But an AGS color and clarity grade is going to be within one grade of GIA if not on par, even a decade ago.

EGL is a different story entirely.

But if you're buying something secondhand, especially something presented with a report, don't take an appraisers word for it. Get those reports and verify them.

 

[lilmountaingirl]

They all go through "periods" of, shall we say, strictness. But in the last decade at least, AGS has been pretty tight, esp on cut. GIA does not grade cut in the same manner, and I don't take their "cut grade" seriously. But an AGS color and clarity grade is going to be within one grade of GIA if not on par, even a decade ago.

Hi Ame! Do you know why some older certs from AGS do not contain a cut grade at all? Did they at some point just not grade cut at all?

 

[ame]

Hi Ame! Do you know why some older certs from AGS do not contain a cut grade at all? Did they at some point just not grade cut at all?

They didn't introduce their light performance style cut grade system until 2005. They did grade it prior to that, however not the way they do now, which has continuously evolved since 2005, obviously. GIA followed suit with their own "system" in 2006.

 

[lilmountaingirl]

They didn't introduce their light performance style cut grade system until 2005. They did grade it prior to that, however not the way they do now, which has continuously evolved since 2005, obviously. GIA followed suit with their own "system" in 2006.

Ahh, thanks! I've seen two diamonds, AGS graded, one from I think 2002 and i can't remember the other but neither cert had a cut grade on it at all. It had color, clarity, inclusion plotting, but nothing for cut. I wonder why those certs didn't have that? Also, I just discovered GIA's new circular brilliant cut grade system which I think every lab should have for old stones but I haven't actually seen any reports yet. I'm curious!

OP, I hope you get the AGS certs soon, I want to see them too!

 

[ame]

Personally, I am skeptical of the new GIA cut system, simply because of their past/current ones, but I, too, am curious. The AGS has certainly given them something to aspire to, for sure.

 

[nicole0612]

Personally, I am skeptical of the new GIA cut system, simply because of their past/current ones, but I, too, am curious. The AGS has certainly given them something to aspire to, for sure.

So would you trust GIA reports for color and clarity, but not the cut specs? And trust AGS reports more, unless it is an older report before they become more strict?

 

[nicole0612]

Ahh, thanks! I've seen two diamonds, AGS graded, one from I think 2002 and i can't remember the other but neither cert had a cut grade on it at all. It had color, clarity, inclusion plotting, but nothing for cut. I wonder why those certs didn't have that? Also, I just discovered GIA's new circular brilliant cut grade system which I think every lab should have for old stones but I haven't actually seen any reports yet. I'm curious!



OP, I hope you get the AGS certs soon, I want to see them too!

Thank you. I always thought that GIA was the gold standard, so you and Ame have opened up my eyes to the fine details. I should have the report within the next 2-3 days, so I will post it and look forward to your input.

 

[ame]

So would you trust GIA reports for color and clarity, but not the cut specs? And trust AGS reports more, unless it is an older report before they become more strict?

I don't trust GIA "cut grade" at all. But I do trust their color and clarity. I do occasionally have pause when there is fluorescence involved on color grading regardless of lab. Totally different subject for a different thread.

I trust AGS equally to GIA for color and clarity, but also trust AGS for cut, esp since 2005 when they changed to the performance system vs just proportions.