How do you feel about designers who have two brands a luxury and a contemporary brand?

[Amazona]

Well - Marc Jabocs did a good job for a while. Michael Kors just copies others designs for his cheapie brand and I have no intention of ever owning anything MMK.
Ralph Lauren has kept the LRL line alive and kicking for long, and the bags are just basic bags. This is one of the sister brands I have belief in.

 

[pursekitten]

Wow that is a comically bad imitation. :O
I've seen other models of kate spade on nordstrom rack that do look exactly like the original version, but I wonder if they're subtly different/worse.

I know right?! They had the gall to call it the same style name, seriously wth. (Full disclosure: I still have a soft spot for some fun, inventive retail/boutique Kate Spade styles and broke my fashion low-buy 60-day streak for the boutique woven leather Dorie in optic white.) This is definitely the most egregious example of a lower quality outlet style vs retail/boutique style. You're right tho, most outlet styles for brands like Kate Spade, Marc Jacobs, and Karl Lagerfeld are more subtle with the style differences.

Outlets used to carry more retail/boutique styles 10+ years ago, so shopping at an outlet was more exciting—you could actually find high quality items for a deal! Now, I feel outlet-only styles outnumber retail/boutique styles and brands have gotten better about hiding that fact.

Marc Jacobs for example seems to put the brand name front and center on most outlet styles but retail/boutique styles will have a simple logo. Check out The Flash versus the Softshot below—both soft leather but there's more detail and care with adding hardware accents on the Softshot than The Flash. I wouldn't be surprised if The Flash loses its shape faster than the Softshot. At least Marc Jacobs is kind enough to give their outlet styles different names.

Marc Jacobs outlet styles' overuse of nylon makes the differences more obvious.

Note: I had some fun comparing Marc Jacobs outlet styles here with retail styles at Saks Fifth Avenue.

Well - Marc Jabocs did a good job for a while. Michael Kors just copies others designs for his cheapie brand and I have no intention of ever owning anything MMK.
Ralph Lauren has kept the LRL line alive and kicking for long, and the bags are just basic bags. This is one of the sister brands I have belief in.

Oh same! Michael Kors has overexposed and diluted themselves with extending lines especially made for Macy's. Liz Claiborne famously put nails in their own coffin by buying too many brands and making products for JCPenny. Nicole Miller is another example. Coach has recently started to claw its way back from overexposure in a return to its heritage roots and styles. I'm glad Michael Kors/Carpi Holdings hasn't overexposed Versace and Jimmy Choo the same way.

 

[Amazona]

Oh same! Michael Kors has overexposed and diluted themselves with extending lines especially made for Macy's. Liz Claiborne famously put nails in their own coffin by buying too many brands and making products for JCPenny. Nicole Miller is another example. Coach has recently started to claw its way back from overexposure in a return to its heritage roots and styles. I'm glad Michael Kors/Carpi Holdings hasn't overexposed Versace and Jimmy Choo the same way.

The problem for me with MMK is the fact that the only creativity they have shown is in putting their own label on designs from Chanel, LV, Chloé etc. I'm okay with a brand like MMK being basically everywhere - they don't have the pricing to be really exclusive, so why not be everywhere? Just wish they'd design at least one bag without a large influence from a high end fashion house.

I'm really pleased for the success Coach has had with returning to its roots. The logo canvas was everything you saw of Coach for a long time - I didn't even really know of their heritage before joining tPF because all I had seen were the logo canvas bags that didn't really rock my boat, so to say. Lately Coach has totally been my jam. I'm loving the new designs and the older designs are also gorgeous, though not really my style (if not counting Penny, which I have two of).

 

[pursekitten]

The problem for me with MMK is the fact that the only creativity they have shown is in putting their own label on designs from Chanel, LV, Chloé etc. I'm okay with a brand like MMK being basically everywhere - they don't have the pricing to be really exclusive, so why not be everywhere? Just wish they'd design at least one bag without a large influence from a high end fashion house.

I'm really pleased for the success Coach has had with returning to its roots. The logo canvas was everything you saw of Coach for a long time - I didn't even really know of their heritage before joining tPF because all I had seen were the logo canvas bags that didn't really rock my boat, so to say. Lately Coach has totally been my jam. I'm loving the new designs and the older designs are also gorgeous, though not really my style (if not counting Penny, which I have two of).

Great point! The fact that MMK's designs are dupes for luxury brands are possibly why seeing them everywhere is tiring. I agree—they should come up with their own bag designs, maybe even exclusive to specific stores, cities, etc. Then, seeing MMK everywhere could be fun and interesting.

I think that's why I go on Kate Spade boutique breaks but I don't tire of them—they always seem to have a few bag designs every year that stand out by being whimsical and fun alongside their standard workhorse designs.

 

[totally]

I like what Chloé is doing with their diffusion line, it has a limited number of handbag/SLG models and there are subtle differences in style between See by Chloé vs. Chloé. I think Coach also leans in this direction, though they have a LOT more handbag models in both the premium vs. outlet collections than Chloé. However, it does feel more streamlined than 10 years ago.

Other designer diffusion lines can be exhausting to sort through, like Michael by Michael Kors...and there is no cohesive style other than copying popular handbag styles.

Another example is Victoria Beckham vs. Victoria by Victoria Beckham. I really like her designs but find the premium line to be way overpriced for what it is, even if she uses quality fabrics. The VVB price point is much more in line with the average woman who would follow her style, but at the same time it doesn't seem to be the best deal given the fabrics used (e.g. these pants). I'm not sure if VVB is helping or harming the VB line.

 

[Sa26]

Omg quite a long time since I created this thread and changed my mind a bit since then.

ok, yes it was really silly of me thinking designers getting a difussion line was altruistic, damn it’s definitely business. What was I thinking
but hey guess what ?

ive found an interesting theory about it and it’s not that they want to reach to another market but to avoid piracy taking costumers from them. It’s like hey we don’t want people to buy a fake Kate spade or Gucci so instead they give them a line less expensive and keep the client.

now difussion lines can go 2 ways either get a new retails sub brand or go the outlet line. Now the most Luxurious Chanel, Hermès or LV well they don’t go either way it’s you accept my stuff at my own price or you don’t not caring for the fakes.

now it’s funny how Karl Lagerfeld being the creative designer of chanel when he created his own brand went straight to the contemporary segment and not Tory Burch contemporary or a spinal of London contemporary but Macys contemporary.

Crazy isn’t being a designer so prestigious when created his own brand didnt choose
premiere contemporary or just luxury he decided to make his Karl lagerfeld brand affordable contemporary.

 

[papertiger]

Omg quite a long time since I created this thread and changed my mind a bit since then.

ok, yes it was really silly of me thinking designers getting a difussion line was altruistic, damn it’s definitely business. What was I thinking
but hey guess what ?

ive found an interesting theory about it and it’s not that they want to reach to another market but to avoid piracy taking costumers from them. It’s like hey we don’t want people to buy a fake Kate spade or Gucci so instead they give them a line less expensive and keep the client.

now difussion lines can go 2 ways either get a new retails sub brand or go the outlet line. Now the most Luxurious Chanel, Hermès or LV well they don’t go either way it’s you accept my stuff at my own price or you don’t not caring for the fakes.

now it’s funny how Karl Lagerfeld being the creative designer of chanel when he created his own brand went straight to the contemporary segment and not Tory Burch contemporary or a spinal of London contemporary but Macys contemporary.

Crazy isn’t being a designer so prestigious when created his own brand didnt choose
premiere contemporary or just luxury he decided to make his Karl lagerfeld brand affordable contemporary.

I think there was a Karl Lagerfeld and a Karl Lagerfeld Paris and many other incarnations and permutations of his own mane brand.

KL started his own line in the mid-1980s and it was originally high fashion, I have an early-mid '90s Lagerfeld dress of pure silk plisse chiffon and patent leather trim and could only have been very expensive to make, very reminiscent of Chanel at the time. I think there have been numerous investor takeovers and each rebirth/variation of the name Karl Lagerfeld, Karl Lagerfeld Paris, Lagerfeld and KL and often meant targeting a different demographic. It's hard to compile a clear timeline because his famous name as designer at Chanel, Fendi and Chloe muddy the history of his namesake brand.

I think Marc Jacobs managed very well in the beginning with MbBJ. Both mainline and 'diffusion' line clear within their own spheres and quality. DH has had a men's MbMJ messenger for years that's been brilliant. Sonia and Sonia Rykiel also had separate good lines, Yohji Yamamoto and Y3 (although sportswear) and a couple of others.

My issue with all brands is that they nearly all have the bag quality of diffusion lines of yesteryear, whereas that keep the mainline name nd the prices.

 

[Sa26]

I think there was a Karl Lagerfeld and a Karl Lagerfeld Paris and many other incarnations and permutations of his own mane brand.

KL started his own line in the mid-1980s and it was originally high fashion, I have an early-mid '90s Lagerfeld dress of pure silk plisse chiffon and patent leather trim and could only have been very expensive to make, very reminiscent of Chanel at the time. I think there have been numerous investor takeovers and each rebirth/variation of the name Karl Lagerfeld, Karl Lagerfeld Paris, Lagerfeld and KL and often meant targeting a different demographic. It's hard to compile a clear timeline because his famous name as designer at Chanel, Fendi and Chloe muddy the history of his namesake brand.

I think Marc Jacobs managed very well in the beginning with MbBJ. Both mainline and 'diffusion' line clear within their own spheres and quality. DH has had a men's MbMJ messenger for years that's been brilliant. Sonia and Sonia Rykiel also had separate good lines, Yohji Yamamoto and Y3 (although sportswear) and a couple of others.

My issue with all brands is that they nearly all have the bag quality of diffusion lines of yesteryear, whereas that keep the mainline name nd the prices.

I read in an online article that the brand was always planted as a contemporary brand but hey maybe the Article was wrong. Anyway good for the brand to be able to handle that many lines.

 

[papertiger]

I read in an online article that the brand was always planted as a contemporary brand but hey maybe the Article was wrong. Anyway good for the brand to be able to handle that many lines.

I know it was sold to Tommy Hilfiger in mid '00s- maybe something changed then

 

[GLangdon]

It is all a business - I agree with that. That being said, some brands just do it better than others. I find it more off-putting when a brand does it clearly to mass-market. But you get other brands that disguise it a bit better - clothing-wise, Max Mara comes to mind. Their sport line and leisure line are clearly lower in price point, but they make a point to gear those lines towards a different use (whether it’s true or not is debatable as some of the products across lines look remarkably similar). They also hide it by sprinkling in a few higher priced items into those lines and a few lower-priced items into their top Max Mara line. In my opinion, it works. Others haven’t been that successful - MK, etc. and then there are some that straddle the line - the jury is out on whether there will be a negative effect on those brands - Valentino/RedValentino, Alexander McQueen/McQ… even your premium handbag brands like Gucci, LV - I’d say they could go either way. On this forum, some are saying they’re not exclusive enough anymore. At this point, it could go either way in my opinion.

 

[BleuSaphir]

I don’t care if company seek to create diffusion lines…they are their to make money. Period.
LV is in the market to make money by creating “luxury goods”. Same for every single well known label lines.

There’s Armani with his his main luxury label with along with Armani Exchange. I saw them complete different entities that filled niche roles under one roof.