Hermes cashmere,silk care tags

[MSO13]

Cashmere is much more prone to pilling than silk, so the idea that increasing the cashmere content would reduce pilling seems strange. I don't doubt that the pilling issues have improved, I just don't think it is due to more cashmere/ less silk. More likely, it is due to a different cashmere source, change in dyeing process or chemicals, or a change in the finishing process.

I would tend to agree, I think they've changed the fibers they're using if the pilling is improved. I don't think they've changed the content, more cashmere would increase the cost and H is not exactly known for not passing those costs on to the consumer. Besides, 70% sounds a lot better according to that marketing department they don't have

 

[MSO13]

Cashmere can be more prone to pilling if shorter fibres are used. Silk does pill but I agree it's usually less than cashmere. It's possible as you say they are using different cashmere fibre. I just think saying something has a certain percentage of a specific fibre when it doesn't is fraudulent and I find it difficult to believe a firm like Hermes would "round up" numbers by nearly 3% or misrepresent fabric content. All I know for sure is that the 70/30 blend is wearing better in my experience.

All I was adding is the conversation I had with my local boutique's store manager who has been with H for over a decade. According to her there was no change to the blend, just the labels and they way it would be "marketed". That's not to say they didn't change the weave, type of fiber or a million other factors and I agree with you, my newer shawls are wearing better than the old.

It's not fraud to round up/down in fabric labelling, in the US under the FTC fabric content can vary as much as 3% in either direction and not require disclosure. This is not to mislead consumers but to allow for variations in textile manufacturing across large scale production.

Anything that's manufactured has a legally allowed threshold for inconsistency. I have a food allergy and learned that under the law products can be labeled as 100% free of this allergen and still contain microscopic amounts. Calorie labels on food can be off by as much as 20%.

 

[mistikat]

All I was adding is the conversation I had with my local boutique's store manager who has been with H for over a decade. According to her there was no change to the blend, just the labels and they way it would be "marketed". That's not to say they didn't change the weave, type of fiber or a million other factors and I agree with you, my newer shawls are wearing better than the old.

It's not fraud to round up/down in fabric labelling, in the US under the FTC fabric content can vary as much as 3% in either direction and not require disclosure. This is not to mislead consumers but to allow for variations in textile manufacturing across large scale production.

Anything that's manufactured has a legally allowed threshold for inconsistency. I have a food allergy and learned that under the law products can be labeled as 100% free of this allergen and still contain microscopic amounts. Calorie labels on food can be off by as much as 20%.

It seems deceptive to me to claim one percentage but knowingly have another. I can see where it might be a difficult thing with nutrients, but it is fairly straightforward with woven items. From the Cashmere and Camel Hair Manufacturers Institute; this is a US POV:

Mislabeling of luxury fibers in woven and knit garments is a growing problem for U.S. retailers. Many imported fabric suppliers and garment manufacturers misrepresent fiber content in order to unfairly trade on the image of luxury fibers, such as cashmere and camel hair. It is important that retailers are alert to this problem, because both federal and state laws hold retailers responsible for the accuracy of the label information on the garments they sell.

And the 3% variance is for wool, not cashmere:

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/bus...cashmere-complying-wool-products-labeling-act

Fiber Content Disclosure
Product labels must reflect the true fiber content of the item. For example, if a sweater is made of wool, it can be labeled as 100% Wool, assuming it contains only wool. Likewise, if a sweater is made only of cashmere as defined in the Wool Act, it can be labeled as 100% either 100% Wool or 100% Cashmere. If a sweater contains cashmere mixed with sheep’s wool and the label refers to cashmere, the label must accurately disclose the content, for example, 80% Wool, 20% Cashmere. It would be illegal to say simply Cashmere or Cashmere blend without stating the percentages. One exception to the requirement that percentages be stated: the word All can be used in place of 100% if the product is made of only one fiber; for example, All Wool or All Cashmere.

If a claim about the fiber content appears elsewhere on the garment, say a sleeve label, it must mirror the garment's fiber content label. For example, a coat labeled 50% Cashmere, 50% Wool cannot have a sleeve label stating only FINE CASHMERE GARMENT or FINE CASHMERE BLEND. In this instance, the sleeve label also must say 50% Cashmere, 50% Wool — in equally conspicuous lettering.

The amended Wool Rules allow hang-tags that identify fibers including cashmere, but that don’t disclose the item’s full fiber content if:

the item has a label that includes the required fiber content statement, and
the hang-tag tells consumers to see the label for the full fiber content, or states that it doesn’t disclose the product’s full fiber content.
These disclosures aren't required if the garment contains only one fiber and the hang-tag identifies that fiber.

The Textile Act allows a 3% tolerance for fiber content claims, but the Wool Products Labeling Act doesn't. However, the Wool Act says that deviation from the stated fiber content is not considered mislabeling if it results from "unavoidable variations" in the manufacturing process that occur despite the exercise of due care. For this reason, the FTC generally applies the 3% tolerance to wool products. The 3% tolerance does not allow for intentional mislabeling. There is no tolerance for a 100% claim, because the addition of another fiber would be intentional.

In other words, yes, it is possible a variance will be tolerated but manufacturers must aim for accuracy. They can't say 70% knowing it's less. That is fraud.

 

[MSO13]

It seems deceptive to me to claim one percentage but knowingly have another. I can see where it might be a difficult thing with nutrients, but it is fairly straightforward with woven items. From the Cashmere and Camel Hair Manufacturers Institute; this is a US POV:

Mislabeling of luxury fibers in woven and knit garments is a growing problem for U.S. retailers. Many imported fabric suppliers and garment manufacturers misrepresent fiber content in order to unfairly trade on the image of luxury fibers, such as cashmere and camel hair. It is important that retailers are alert to this problem, because both federal and state laws hold retailers responsible for the accuracy of the label information on the garments they sell.

And the 3% variance is for wool, not cashmere:

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/bus...cashmere-complying-wool-products-labeling-act

Fiber Content Disclosure
Product labels must reflect the true fiber content of the item. For example, if a sweater is made of wool, it can be labeled as 100% Wool, assuming it contains only wool. Likewise, if a sweater is made only of cashmere as defined in the Wool Act, it can be labeled as 100% either 100% Wool or 100% Cashmere. If a sweater contains cashmere mixed with sheep’s wool and the label refers to cashmere, the label must accurately disclose the content, for example, 80% Wool, 20% Cashmere. It would be illegal to say simply Cashmere or Cashmere blend without stating the percentages. One exception to the requirement that percentages be stated: the word All can be used in place of 100% if the product is made of only one fiber; for example, All Wool or All Cashmere.

If a claim about the fiber content appears elsewhere on the garment, say a sleeve label, it must mirror the garment's fiber content label. For example, a coat labeled 50% Cashmere, 50% Wool cannot have a sleeve label stating only FINE CASHMERE GARMENT or FINE CASHMERE BLEND. In this instance, the sleeve label also must say 50% Cashmere, 50% Wool — in equally conspicuous lettering.

The amended Wool Rules allow hang-tags that identify fibers including cashmere, but that don’t disclose the item’s full fiber content if:

the item has a label that includes the required fiber content statement, and
the hang-tag tells consumers to see the label for the full fiber content, or states that it doesn’t disclose the product’s full fiber content.
These disclosures aren't required if the garment contains only one fiber and the hang-tag identifies that fiber.

The Textile Act allows a 3% tolerance for fiber content claims, but the Wool Products Labeling Act doesn't. However, the Wool Act says that deviation from the stated fiber content is not considered mislabeling if it results from "unavoidable variations" in the manufacturing process that occur despite the exercise of due care. For this reason, the FTC generally applies the 3% tolerance to wool products. The 3% tolerance does not allow for intentional mislabeling. There is no tolerance for a 100% claim, because the addition of another fiber would be intentional.

In other words, yes, it is possible a variance will be tolerated but manufacturers must aim for accuracy. They can't say 70% knowing it's less. That is fraud.

Well then I guess we have to take the label at face value and assume that H shawls now contain 5% more cashmere fibers.

Whatever the change they made, it is my limited experience that the 2 shawls I own that have the new label are less pilled and less fuzzy than the ones with the 65% label but I haven't owned them that long.

 

[mistikat]

Well then I guess we have to take the label at face value and assume that H shawls now contain 5% more cashmere fibers.

Whatever the change they made, it is my limited experience that the 2 shawls I own that have the new label are less pilled and less fuzzy than the ones with the 65% label but I haven't owned them that long.

We're on the same page that this it's entirely possible this is just a marketing ploy on the part of Hermes. I just think it would be stupid of them to do this as some kind of empty gesture when there are real consequences to knowingly mislabeling. And yes, whatever the reason, I hope these new ones (if they are in fact new) hold up better than the old ones. I think it was only a few years when the quality obviously nosedived. There are threads pinpointing the dates this became obvious ... and I don't know the cashmere/silk content of those older ones (and really don't want to find out!!)

 

[Monceau]

Like so much at H, this will probably remain a mystery as well. Some H employees say the composition has changed, others say that only the labeling has changed. Whatever it is, they are probably just guessing, because I don't think H is very good about keeping their sales employees up to date with developments in the factory or at corporate. I really don't think Hermes has tried to mislead people: 5% one way or the other- would any of us really care or stop purchasing shawls based on that? I have no idea how they measure these fibers- if it's by weight or volume, but some variation would not surprise or disturb me.

 

[MadMadCat]

We're on the same page that this it's entirely possible this is just a marketing ploy on the part of Hermes. I just think it would be stupid of them to do this as some kind of empty gesture when there are real consequences to knowingly mislabeling. And yes, whatever the reason, I hope these new ones (if they are in fact new) hold up better than the old ones. I think it was only a few years when the quality obviously nosedived. There are threads pinpointing the dates this became obvious ... and I don't know the cashmere/silk content of those older ones (and really don't want to find out!!)

+1
The quality of the shawls seems to have degraded in the last few years, with the lowest point being the zebra pegasus cgsm, for instance, which pilled after just 3 wears (i don't baby my shawls, but...).
Things have inproved since and the ones i bought this winter are holding up much better.

Personally i don't care much about that 5% change in the label.