Hermes artisans

[textilegirl]

It looks to be a very interesting video.
I think the reaction to the wages paid is more an indication of how out of touch some people buying luxury items can be to the staff they deal with. Just because someone works in a luxury retail environment does not mean that they receive commensurate wages.
How many of those people can drop 10,000+ on a bag?

This.

 

[PurseCloset]

I was told by a fairly (I think) reliable source a few years ago that the bags are not fully hand stitched and how to tell which bits are hand stitched and which bits are machine. I did post about it on here but the post was deleted, probably to protect against helping fakes. Had no idea about the multiple people bit though, that would be a shame.

Oh please share the scoop again on the details of hand stitched and not so we can tell them apart. Coming from someone buying mostly from reseller route , it will help in identifying quality, replicas etc etc. Thanks!

 

[Tonimichelle]

Oh please share the scoop again on the details of hand stitched and not so we can tell them apart. Coming from someone buying mostly from reseller route , it will help in identifying quality, replicas etc etc. Thanks!

It would also help the counterfeiters I guess, so not allowed I'm sorry!

 

[PurseCloset]

It's called capitalism where greed is unbridled . Listed companies will always have shareholders that forever demand higher profits to enjoy payouts on their investments . Hermes is not a listed company but they do have shareholders that exert similar pressures on the way the company is runned

 

[Liberté]

Thank you for sharing that podcast, it was interesting and very thorough. I can relate to what Peter said in the video about people now compliment bags and other items because of the brand (Hermès), it's one reason not to carry obvious Hermes items for me. And it is understandable that when the brand becomes much more important than any other aspect of what they sell, that corners may be cut or that some of the processes have to be done more efficiently, or simply in order to scale up the volumes. It simply doesn't matter that much when the brand is more important than anything else, and Peter gave a great example of that with the beginning of his own brand.

I can't believe people are shocked over these wages. What do people think people are making in France or central Europe? What do people think the cost of living is? The dollar right now is extremely strong, so any European wage is going to seem low from a US perspective, and also from a Swiss perspective. The person doing the interview's reaction "that is less than I though" comes off as disingenuous or at best very naive, especially considering he is in the tanning business, where the salaries are even lower and with documented poor working conditions (in Italy at the very least).

The average salary in France for everyone working in the private sector is 3 321 euros before tax a month, or 2 524 after tax (2021 numbers), this includes all kinds of professions. A job as an artisan at Hermès takes 18 months of training (presumably free). A doctor in France, although it varies between specialization might make 100 00 euros a year. A teacher can expect to make about 2100 a month after tax after ten years of working experience in France. A PhD candidate in Germany can make about 50 000 Euros a year doing cutting edge research in their field.

 

[Notorious Pink]

OP, thank you for starting this thread. I am very much looking forward to watching this entire video. I’m also interested in learning further details about their compensation, whether that includes non-salary benefits like health, board, etc.

One thing to bear in mind - Pete Nitz is an incredibly talented craftsman and a pleasure to deal with. But technically, he also competes with Hermès for the same customers.

It's called capitalism where greed is unbridled . Listed companies will always have shareholders that forever demand higher profits to enjoy payouts on their investments . Hermes is not a listed company but they do have shareholders that exert similar pressures on the way the company is runned

The day-to-day realities of Capitalism and Shareholders is not quite so cartoonish. Capitalism has lifted more people from poverty than any other economic system by far (and by the way, one of the benefits of a Capitalist Economy is to provide services to its citizens like roads, schools and emergency services). Shareholders include retirees living on fixed incomes, young families trying to grow their nest egg, unions wanting to benefit their employees, investment funds, and people who believe in the future of that particular business.

 

[PurseCloset]

Seriously if these well trained artisans that took years to hone their skills go unappreciated for their craftsmanship and underpaid, i wouldnt be surprised at all if these very same guys "moonlight" else to earn extra income by producing "similar" bags in unregulated industry . They might jolly well be higher paid for it actually in these indusrty. Is that why the replica industry is able to produce totally look alikes and sometimes perhaps even better ones ? Lol

Therefore, genuine companies with good corporate governance please pay your workers fairly and equitably.

 

[BreakfastCake]

Salaries in Europe are way lower than in the USA. The cost of living is also lower, specially healthcare costs, and workers have paid holidays. It is an entirely different system. I bet most people here who are outraged by these salaries are American.

 

[umamanikam]

If many of the artisans are from as Asia ( btw I am an Asian and no malice intended ) what is there for them not to sell to the duplicate market .A person is a person from wherever he / she is and money is money .So I bet many secrets will be revealed and that's why the fakes are brilliant if not better .

 

[Muffin_Top]

Exactly as @BreakfastCake says.
Salaries cannot be compared between tpfers because in France education, healthcare, unemployment and retirement insurance are financed by the community.
The minimal wage is currently 1350 € a month, which is...
Not much less than 1700 €, if that number is true.
Actually I'm not that appalled, as workers in car factories just make the same salary for building cars that sell for the same price as Kellies ^^

 

[Jktgal]

I didn't watch the video but not surprised that wages for H artisans are minimum wage. Manual labor in the formal sector with no creativity involved, means millions can do it with enough practice. And no, they will not earn more making counterfeits in Europe (at least not in formal employment), because even more people with similar ability compete for that job and counterfeiters have their picking of workers. I wager Polene artisans and H artisans make similar salaries. Although currently all leather artisans might be making more because it's the seller's (labourer's) market reportedly.
So yeah, luxury bags purchased at retail prices is 80-95% profit, allegedly.

xx

 

[benjinito]

Salaries in Europe are way lower than in the USA. The cost of living is also lower, specially healthcare costs, and workers have paid holidays. It is an entirely different system. I bet most people here who are outraged by these salaries are American.

To illustrate this point, I work for a company with offices in multiple countries, and my counterpart in the EU told me he makes 60% of what I (US-based) make.

 

[Nathaniele]

Doing some very rough math:
1700/30=57 euros - the pay that artisan receives daily
Making a bag without shoulder strap like Birkin takes around 5 days, but let’s round it up to 7 because employers gotta cover weekends too
57*7=399 euros
So the labor cost is around 400 euros per bag. I cannot speak for the price of raw materials and hardware, also the shared cost of worker’s training and marketing, but idk if it still makes sense to justify the bag prices with superior craftsmanship as it is traditionally done in luxury community.

 

[WhiteBus]

Doing some very rough math:
1700/30=57 euros - the pay that artisan receives daily
Making a bag without shoulder strap like Birkin takes around 5 days, but let’s round it up to 7 because employers gotta cover weekends too
57*7=399 euros
So the labor cost is around 400 euros per bag. I cannot speak for the price of raw materials and hardware, also the shared cost of worker’s training and marketing, but idk if it still makes sense to justify the bag prices with superior craftsmanship as it is traditionally done in luxury community.

Yes, indeed. That is true when you look at the production/retail costs of many items.
But you then have to factor in the additional costs for the privilege of shopping (being served) in lovely surroundings located in prime real estate.
All of which contribute to what you are asked to pay for any item in a luxury boutique.

 

[QuelleFromage]

Doing some very rough math:
1700/30=57 euros - the pay that artisan receives daily
Making a bag without shoulder strap like Birkin takes around 5 days, but let’s round it up to 7 because employers gotta cover weekends too
57*7=399 euros
So the labor cost is around 400 euros per bag. I cannot speak for the price of raw materials and hardware, also the shared cost of worker’s training and marketing, but idk if it still makes sense to justify the bag prices with superior craftsmanship as it is traditionally done in luxury community.

Well, first, in France we do not work a 7-day week or even a 40-hour one unless in an office/corporate position (and if an hourly employee does work over 35 hours, they are usually paid overtime), so the math would be a bit different.

It's probably wise to read some of the extensive studies on luxury marketing and pricing. Even ten years ago, luxury markup was around 13x costs and is now much higher.

I don't want to defend any luxury brand, but the fact that the handmade counterfeits from the place that uses H leathers and thread are *very* expensive says something about the cost of making H bags.