Gucci Is Facing Backlash Again...

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Really? Even if it's offensive to them just that you show your bare legs, arms and face publicly? Even if your mere existence, because you don't share their cultural or religious beliefs, is an offense to them and according to their culture gives them the right to sexually abuse, enslave or kill you? Even if they’re so offended by your mere ethnicity because of some real or perceived historic slight that neither they or you were involved in, they want to take away your right to speak up and advocate for yourself and thereby make you a second class citizen?

What you are proposing is not just mental gymnastics, it’s another tPF triumph of the gymnastics of moral relativism.

This is more like extremism than any religion, or any culture really. And comparing a fashion faux pas to extremist ideals is a bit facetious. Really.

Look, any religion taken to the extreme has some awful, awful, archaic moralistic rules. Why? Because they were founded centuries ago and much of their legal aspects were meant for that era and that era's people. Exhibit A - Leviticus and the Crusades. Exhibit B - Hudud punishments in the Qu'ran. And for that era, keeping populations isolated, controlled and fearful about outsiders was very much about preserving culture and life. Heck, you see that going on in today's politics - no immigrants, no refugees, protect "our" country's culture etc. Keeping the population in check has always been how powerful people stayed powerful and creating fear of outsiders (us vs them mentality) kept populations cohesive and easier to control.

As someone of Chinese heritage, if the cheongsam is done tastefully, respectfully...more Nicole Kidman than Chun Li, it's fine. Don't mock culture, and if someone says you're mocking it, then accept that you are. But yeah, let the minorities decide where the line is...the whole tumblr/twitter moralistic crowd who try to tell us where the line is are also part of the problem. But also don't deny that cultural appropriation happens and that minorities have a right to speak up about them. And yes, if a culture accepts aspects of loaning their traditional attire out for tourism and cultural education, it's still THEIR decision within a specific and limited circumstance, it's not a blanket "okay" for brands to run off and send modified kimonos, cheongsams, hanboks down the runways and onto red carpets.

There is a middle ground though and listening is it.

:flowers:
 
This is more like extremism than any religion, or any culture really. And comparing a fashion faux pas to extremist ideals is a bit facetious. Really.

Look, any religion taken to the extreme has some awful, awful, archaic moralistic rules. Why? Because they were founded centuries ago and much of their legal aspects were meant for that era and that era's people. Exhibit A - Leviticus and the Crusades. Exhibit B - Hudud punishments in the Qu'ran. And for that era, keeping populations isolated, controlled and fearful about outsiders was very much about preserving culture and life. Heck, you see that going on in today's politics - no immigrants, no refugees, protect "our" country's culture etc. Keeping the population in check has always been how powerful people stayed powerful and creating fear of outsiders (us vs them mentality) kept populations cohesive and easier to control.

As someone of Chinese heritage, if the cheongsam is done tastefully, respectfully...more Nicole Kidman than Chun Li, it's fine. Don't mock culture, and if someone says you're mocking it, then accept that you are. But yeah, let the minorities decide where the line is...the whole tumblr/twitter moralistic crowd who try to tell us where the line is are also part of the problem. But also don't deny that cultural appropriation happens and that minorities have a right to speak up about them. And yes, if a culture accepts aspects of loaning their traditional attire out for tourism and cultural education, it's still THEIR decision within a specific and limited circumstance, it's not a blanket "okay" for brands to run off and send modified kimonos, cheongsams, hanboks down the runways and onto red carpets.

There is a middle ground though and listening is it.

:flowers:
Very wise.
 
Really? Even if it's offensive to them just that you show your bare legs, arms and face publicly? Even if your mere existence, because you don't share their cultural or religious beliefs, is an offense to them and according to their culture gives them the right to sexually abuse, enslave or kill you? Even if they’re so offended by your mere ethnicity because of some real or perceived historic slight that neither they or you were involved in, they want to take away your right to speak up and advocate for yourself and thereby make you a second class citizen?

What you are proposing is not just mental gymnastics, it’s another tPF triumph of the gymnastics of moral relativism.

That seems pretty extreme, but okay!
 
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I knew lots of sikh guys growing up who were bullied endlessly in elementary and high school for wearing turbans. Sikh adults also have faced discrimination for wearing their turbans. And there have been cases where Sikhs were shot a killed in their own places of worship.

Gucci making a turban "fashionable" is NOT okay because Sikhs who wear it for their religion are harmed for it. Period.

Just because Zsa Zsa Gabor wore it doesn't make it okay. Lots of folks got away with cultural appropriation in the past, but that doesn't mean it still flies now.
 
Speaking of appropriation, now that we have lambasted in particular Zsa Zsa Gabor and Joan Collins for the high crime of "cultural appropriation", how about singer supreme Johnnie Wilder and Nick Cannon, donning the turban? :whut: Nick is no Sikh, but he and his fashion minions have suffered no indignant uproar. He has stated he doesn't even believe in religion. Nick Cannon: “I’ve been studying the Sikh faith. It didn’t start as a fashion statement but it kind of turned into one.” All rightey then, you do you, Nick :tup:
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(link http://www.desihiphop.com/shouldnt-...n-explaining-sikhism-importance-turban/542005 )

Your whole post is more support for the argument that people in entertainment commit cultural appropriation based on fashion and ignorance.
-Nick Cannon wears one even though he’s not religious.
-Johnnie Wilder wore one because...fashion.

Or were you trying to say something different but just accidentally ended up supporting the generally agreed upon idea that whites and people in the entertainment industry in general commit cultural appropriation based on ignorance?
 
First thing that popped into my head was Nick Cannon. He's been wearing a turban for years now..and it's often been brought up in conversation. He says it's cause he likes it and it's fashion. I guess Gucci had the same view?. I don't condone it..just a thought...granted, they should know better..but publicity is still publicity.
 
In general, if a person of a generally oppressed culture tells you something is cultural appropriation, then the rest of the world needs to stop and listen and not argue against or claim that it is cultural appreciation.

I am Punjabi. I 100% think Gucci was culturally appropriating turbans and I find their misuse of these disrespectful.

+1 yesss omg say it louder for the folks in the back!!!
 
Your whole post is more support for the argument that people in entertainment commit cultural appropriation based on fashion and ignorance.
-Nick Cannon wears one even though he’s not religious.
-Johnnie Wilder wore one because...fashion.

Or were you trying to say something different but just accidentally ended up supporting the generally agreed upon idea that whites and people in the entertainment industry in general commit cultural appropriation based on ignorance?
No. It’s about you twice singling out white people in particular as “guilty of” and “committing” so called cultural appropriation while hypocritically ignoring when black people “commit cultural appropriation”, evasively referring this to them being in the entertainment industry. Nick Cannon claims to be a student of the Sikh faith, and to be aware of the meaning of the turban/dastaar. Ignorant, he’s not.
 
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No. It’s about you twice singling out white people in particular as “guilty of” and “committing” so called cultural appropriation while hypocritically ignoring when black people “commit cultural appropriation”, evasively referring this to them being in the entertainment industry. Nick Cannon claims to be a student of the Sikh faith, and to be aware of the meaning of the turban/dastaar. Ignorant, he’s not.

It sounds like perhaps you don’t have an understanding of what cultural appropriation means. Cultural appropriation typically involves people of a dominant group exploiting the culture of less privileged/minority groups, especially when the cultures that are being misappropriated have a historical background of being bullied or face discrimination due to their minority culture.

Your comment is akin to saying people of colour can also be racist towards white people. No, no they cannot by default.

Here’s a good read:

https://www.thoughtco.com/cultural-appropriation-and-why-iits-wrong-2834561
 
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No. It’s about you twice singling out white people in particular as “guilty of” and “committing” so called cultural appropriation while hypocritically ignoring when black people “commit cultural appropriation”, evasively referring this to them being in the entertainment industry. Nick Cannon claims to be a student of the Sikh faith, and to be aware of the meaning of the turban/dastaar. Ignorant, he’s not.

So you’re just sensitive about white people being called out for committing cultural appropriation and forcing examples of black entertainers to say, “see it’s not just white people.”
 
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Anyone and everyone is capable of committing cultural appropriation regardless of their race, gender, religion or any other form of personal identity.

Nick Cannon wearing it for "fashion" is just as wrong in my eyes as Zsa Zsa Gabor, Joan Collins, or Gucci using it for fashion. Although Gucci might be held to a higher level because they are a HUGE global brand and are selling the item.

This goes for racist views and behaviors as well. I've faced racial discrimination by people from many different races and ethnic identities.

These concepts are not exclusive to a certain group of people. They can be expressed and interpreted by anyone.
 
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Really? Even if it's offensive to them just that you show your bare legs, arms and face publicly? Even if your mere existence, because you don't share their cultural or religious beliefs, is an offense to them and according to their culture gives them the right to sexually abuse, enslave or kill you? Even if they’re so offended by your mere ethnicity because of some real or perceived historic slight that neither they or you were involved in, they want to take away your right to speak up and advocate for yourself and thereby make you a second class citizen?

What you are proposing is not just mental gymnastics, it’s another tPF triumph of the gymnastics of moral relativism.
Really? Wow! you learnt some culture and religion at a “Toxic University” huh? I am a Sikh ... and those are my legs... EXPOSED...omg! Save me ... Sikhs are coming after me to kill me..... save me. ****
 

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