Gucci Is Facing Backlash Again...

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To me the media is the one making the most of 'Gucci' for word-searches.

The fashion show happened in Feb of last year (2018). It could be that the wearing/styling of them was courting controversy too.

It's not a real turban, more a soft hat. Turbans are made from metres of fabric and ties in a specific way. This is a readymade hat that looks like draped fabric. I have a Sikh colleague who just laughed when I wanted to discuss this issue in terms of ethics last year. Whist I hope I am sensitive towards many cultures symbols and codes and their fashionable cultural appropriation, many religions use turban-like headgear including my own, and for me although it's not a non-issue, it's not on the same scale as those stupid masks.
 
The black face controversy is understandable but turbans? Joan Collins and Zsa Zsa Gabor have been wearing them all their lives. Would people be upset if LV sells hijabs too?

And joan collins and zsa zsa gabor are two white women who are guilty of cultural appropriation.

Turbans are clearly a culturally significant item that has meaning to a specific culture but that people/fashion houses have rudely flaunted as a fashion accessory. This has never been acceptable and the mainstream is catching up with the fact that it’s not acceptable.
 
It is so difficult to talk about this kind of things in internet without offending anyone or being understood..., it is all so complex. But I am going to dare to give my views.

For a start, to me this turban is not like other turbans, for example the mentioned Hollywood glamour ones. Otherwise the blacklash would have happened before as Gucci has lead the revival of the turban and has been offering several models every season since de Michele arrived... as have many other brands, I myself wear Missoni turbans in the beach and I think the associations they trigger nowadays are different from this particular turban. While it is true that Eastern influence and fashions was often, not always, behind, turbans have been worn as headwear now in Europe for centuries. Think Vermeer de Delft. And before that of course Spain, Greece and parts of Italy were under various Muslim/Ottoman rules and this type of head wear standard. In the first part of the XXth century the fabric turban was the working girl cheap alternative to the hat in a continent wrecked by poverty. So there are so many associations I do not think of it as cultural appropriation and yes, my perspective is that of a ‘white’ European (even if many in my family are darker that most Indian Sikhs, being as we are from exactly the same indo-caucasian stock).

Now, this particular Gucci turban is different because it is basically a faithful (if mock) interpretation of the exact turban that is nowadays worn by Sikhs, a religious minority of India, and which therefore has strong identitary and religious connotations. Gucci should have been more careful and aware. Does this mean the use of the turban in a fashion show (which happened months ago) is offensive? That is for Sikhs to say.

And offensive as it may be, I don’t think it has anything to do with the blackface scandal. There it was not about the appropriation of an identity or religious symbol. It was about the frivolization of a symbol of oppression that recalls one of the most terrible things a group of humans have inflicted on another. That is not cultural appropriation.

Cultural appropriation in a religious context as with the Sikh turban, can be tricky and should be avoided, But in my personal opinion, in other cases it goes too far. What is cultural appropriation and what is cultural cross fertilization? Stella McCartney got a blacklash for using African wax print fabrics. These fabrics (which were incidentally introduced in Africa by the Dutch) are exceptionally beautiful, why not spreading their use? In the meantime, traditional wax print factories are disappearing fast in Africa, the know how lost with them, while cheap t-shirts and jeans are literally dumped by the ton on the continent everyday. Is that really preferable? I find behind many a cultural appropriation debate there is an underlying sense of white supremacy which results in guilt driven paternalism. Like with the ‘Asian and Hermes’ thread in this forum, which makes some white people uncomfortable while Asians happily contribute and enjoy it. From the kimono to the sari or the kurta, passing through the Native American moccasins or the Persian kaftan, everything we wear is imbedded in a myriad of cultural influences and to me, those influences are to be nurtured and encouraged and more desirable than the imposition of western wear on everybody else...
 
Weren't rosarys a big fashion statement a decade ago? Many people wore them that were neither religious nor Christian. Nobody that I can recall was offended by it. I myself am Christian, and whilst I do have the beads, I never really got into wearing them as a fashion choice. I knew many people that did, especially on a night out, did that ever offend me or anyone else I know? Most definitely not. Fashion designers roam the world seeking inspirations for their new collections. Dior has just released a collection basically in conjunction with leading African wax print designers. I wonder, had they not also released many social media posts on how the collection was designed where you can see Maria collaborating with several African designers, would people call her out for cultural appropriation? Idk, I just think in a world where we are meant to be bringing cultures together and celebrate different societies, if fashion is going to be restricted to what country (or colour of skin) the head designer for that house is from then we are indeed taking a step backwards as a society. Just my thought, interesting debate though!
 
Weren't rosarys a big fashion statement a decade ago? Many people wore them that were neither religious nor Christian. Nobody that I can recall was offended by it. I myself am Christian, and whilst I do have the beads, I never really got into wearing them as a fashion choice. I knew many people that did, especially on a night out, did that ever offend me or anyone else I know? Most definitely not. Fashion designers roam the world seeking inspirations for their new collections. Dior has just released a collection basically in conjunction with leading African wax print designers. I wonder, had they not also released many social media posts on how the collection was designed where you can see Maria collaborating with several African designers, would people call her out for cultural appropriation? Idk, I just think in a world where we are meant to be bringing cultures together and celebrate different societies, if fashion is going to be restricted to what country (or colour of skin) the head designer for that house is from then we are indeed taking a step backwards as a society. Just my thought, interesting debate though!
That’s true but I think the world has changed drastically in the past ten years.
 
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That’s true but I think the world has changed drastically in the past ten years.
Oh definitely! I agree that its changed, I'm just uncertain whether restricting artistic flair will be a good thing in the long run. Having said that, I also think you can't be causing disrespect and anger for the sake of art or with the excuse that "its fashion darling". Its a tricky one in my opinion and will be interesting to see how things pan out over the next decade or so
 
And joan collins and zsa zsa gabor are two white women who are guilty of cultural appropriation.

Turbans are clearly a culturally significant item that has meaning to a specific culture but that people/fashion houses have rudely flaunted as a fashion accessory. This has never been acceptable and the mainstream is catching up with the fact that it’s not acceptable.
Speaking of appropriation, now that we have lambasted in particular Zsa Zsa Gabor and Joan Collins for the high crime of "cultural appropriation", how about singer supreme Johnnie Wilder and Nick Cannon, donning the turban? :whut: Nick is no Sikh, but he and his fashion minions have suffered no indignant uproar. He has stated he doesn't even believe in religion. Nick Cannon: “I’ve been studying the Sikh faith. It didn’t start as a fashion statement but it kind of turned into one.” All rightey then, you do you, Nick :tup:
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(link http://www.desihiphop.com/shouldnt-...n-explaining-sikhism-importance-turban/542005 )
 
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For me, if someone of another race, culture, etc. tells me that something is offensive to them, then that's it. It's offensive and it stops there. There should be no mental gymnastics to try to justify why it isn't offensive, shouldn't be considered offensive, or wasn't intended to be offensive.
Really? Even if it's offensive to them just that you show your bare legs, arms and face publicly? Even if your mere existence, because you don't share their cultural or religious beliefs, is an offense to them and according to their culture gives them the right to sexually abuse, enslave or kill you? Even if they’re so offended by your mere ethnicity because of some real or perceived historic slight that neither they or you were involved in, they want to take away your right to speak up and advocate for yourself and thereby make you a second class citizen?

What you are proposing is not just mental gymnastics, it’s another tPF triumph of the gymnastics of moral relativism.
 
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For me, if someone of another race, culture, etc. tells me that something is offensive to them, then that's it. It's offensive and it stops there. There should be no mental gymnastics to try to justify why it isn't offensive, shouldn't be considered offensive, or wasn't intended to be offensive.
I disagree. Who has the authority to represent a culture? You end up with bizarre and jarring situations like when the Japanese government promotes wearing kimonos and yukatas while US based Asian interest groups attack people online for wearing kimonos or yukatas while staying at ryokan.

Turbans have existed for thousands of years across the Eurasian and African continents in different shape and forms, so saying that putting any turban the catwalk is inherently cultural appropriation and then to say that it's inherently offensive is very damaging in my opinion.

I think what people lose sight of is the specific problems that theories of cultural appropriation were meant to address and how they can be applied in such a way that it makes society better. They weren't meant to be some kind excuse for a lynch mob replacement of blasphemy legislation. The possibility to criticize different cultural practices and religions through subversion of symbols is important and shouldn't be banned in the name of cultural appropriation.

That being said, Gucci is can probably only claim to have had sales, profit and marketing in mind when they made this, not some sort of contribution to the public debate. And it does look a lot like a typical Sikh turban. So they could probably have gone about it in a better way.
 
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