EGL Diamonds

[ame]

I have never had one EGL and not even in the future period
However, my sister in-law has and tried to trade in. That was they told them. They were even told her upfront before she purchased that stone from them. She decided to get because it was cheaper than GIA's. Not too long ago, she wants to upgrade to GIA stone, and that same jewelry store she bought from wasn't want to take it back. So, go figure

You are spewing anecdotal evidence as fact and you are not stating actual fact. Just because your sister dealt with a jeweler who would not work with her, doesn’t mean all jewelers work that way, and also does not mean she purchased an inferior or low quality diamond. GIA is definitely the “standard” as far as labs are concerned, and yes, many jewelers consider only that lab to be accurate, and they price themselves and their merchandise higher because of that. But it does not make the diamond any higher quality. It just means someone spent more to get it graded by GIA and will charge more for it by implying that it is a better stone. It’s not. It’s still a diamond. And there are EGL graded stones of higher and better make than many GIA stones in the market.
Many other jewelers would gladly take her stone back in trade, regardless of where she purchased it, and regardless of the lab report she likely would not get very much since she didn’t initially buy from that jeweler.
Many of us very educated Diamond lovers, some of whom are GG’s, own EGL stones. That does NOT make them lower quality. And berating people who don’t share your opinion on the matter or the marketing surrounding the GIA labs which you’ve absorbed is not cool.

One more thing, I know for sure that vs1 is never can equal or compare with vvs1 period

what do you think when people paid for vvs1 of GIA's ???

All my stone are D and H color with vvs1 from GIA.

If there is no difference between vs1 and vvs1 of GIA, why would it has so much different in US$?

Not sure about future, but for the time being, EGL is can not compare with GIA.

That is your opinion. NOT FACT. Priority is different from person to person. I don't care if my stone is a VVS1 or VS1, its eye clean. I am not paying the associated premium for a VVS1 if my eye cannot see the difference without a heavy loupe.

Factually there are identical quality stones graded by one lab over another that do carry a premium. That doesn't make them lower quality because they were not GIA graded.

Forgot to add, I would rather have quality not quantity

Many people would prefer quality over quantity. But you're assuming that VVS equals higher quality. Just because the clarity is high doesn't make it perfect quality. It makes it higher clarity. And just because a stone is an H or above color doesn't make it better quality, it makes it higher color. Quality has several facets, and all of the C's make up quality. Just because what is important to you is high color and clarity, doesn't mean that's what someone else considers important. You’re trying to sway the other readers on this board with your opinion, and you are trying to present it as fact, and you are not educated enough to present actual facts.

While on paper, there's a massive difference, as well as under magnification and in pricing, VS1 and VVS1 to the naked eye are identical. Without 10-30x or higher magnification, no human unaided eye can detect the difference. ON PAPER and UNDER MAGNIFICATION, a higher clarity diamond is definitely more valuable, because it’s rarer and harder to obtain such clarity.

 

[Bagaday]

A cert is a piece of paper to give you a map of the specs on a diamond. I don't care what house certs a diamond, people have different perspectives on what they are looking at. Is it good to have a cert. by a reputable house, yes. Is it necessary, no. Buy what your eye latches onto and let the diamond 'speak' to you per se. Educate yourself but the cert is not going to determine what your diamond would be for market re-sell value. AME is absolutely correct about what you may or may not get if you want to re-sell. I can't beleive a jeweler would sell a diamond and the refuse to do a trade-in. What does that say about that jeweler's business practices???

 

[ame]

Exactly. That's like a totally different argument to be made regarding certs and how they correlate to resale and trade-in value. If they sold it, they should be able to resell it. Maybe not right away but they should, even if it's back to the trade.

You, the end consumer, might not get full price that you paid but usually within 85% regardless of lab. But that's assuming you initially bought that stone from that jeweler. Expecting some other jeweler to purchase something from you is expecting a lot as it is, but expecting them to give you anywhere near what you paid initially is insane. They can go buy a new one cheaper than what you have secondhand, so why buy used for the same price?

Whatever lab grades the stone, there IS a perceivable difference in value, but that's due to MARKETING, not due to verifiable fact. And jewelers are just as guilty of this as consumers.

 

[skphotoimages]

One more thing, I know for sure that vs1 is never can equal or compare with vvs1 period

what do you think when people paid for vvs1 of GIA's ???

All my stone are D and H color with vvs1 from GIA.

If there is no difference between vs1 and vvs1 of GIA, why would it has so much different in US$?

Not sure about future, but for the time being, EGL is can not compare with GIA.

I can assure you my EGL VS2 easily equals or beats a lot of GIA VVS1's. We finally found the nearly invisible inlusion today under a 30x microscope on the pavillion side near the edge of the girdle. And it is clear and can only be seen if the light hits it just right. It took 4 jewelers and 5 years to find it. I have never seen a GIA VS2 that could even come close to the clarity of my EGL. Heck I haven't seen a GIA Vs1 or Vvs2 that came close..they might exist though, I'm not so close minded to assume otherwise.

 

[ceya]

Ame and skphotoimages, both of you say vs1 = vvs1? I have nothing else to say
(Ame, you have that mentioned on the previous page about your jeweler. Because I was not address all 4c's , then you assumed am stated color and clarity are better quality of a stone??? when you are saying I was assumed, then you should better not )

Buyer may purchase with false quality at high price
But seller most of time will never be wrong about their selling pieces especially on high end stuffs.

if you think you can buy vvs1 at vs1's price then please do, why pay higher for a stone that has same quality? Hmmm......I wouldn't
Please remember, I was talking about 4c's overall not particular on clarity only.

am out of here.

 

[ame]

Ame and skphotoimages, both of you say vs1 = vvs1? I have nothing else to say
(Ame, you have that mentioned on the previous page about your jeweler. Because I was not address all 4c's , then you assumed am stated color and clarity are better quality of a stone??? when you are saying I was assumed, then you should better not )

Buyer may purchase with false quality at high price
But seller most of time will never be wrong about their selling pieces especially on high end stuffs.

if you think you can buy vvs1 at vs1's price then please do, why pay higher for a stone that has same quality? Hmmm......I wouldn't
Please remember, I was talking about 4c's overall not particular on clarity only.

am out of here.

Are you out of here because you didn’t read and comprehend what we said and you have no facts to prove us wrong? Because that’s how I just read what you posted.

Just because someone sells a stone or item at a higher price in a higher end store does NOT make it higher quality. That is perceived value by the end consumer. An educated seller that is in fact a gemologist and not just a salesguy will know what he or she is selling, and will either be honest or lie about it to make a sale. It’s marketed to the masses that anything from that retailer is higher quality, and people believe it, but that doesn’t make it higher quality. Tiffanys, Cartier, etc., all sell dogs of stones to people on the premise that it is in fact the best there is, but it is in fact NOT. It’s perception. And to some people, apparently you included, perception is reality.

Neither of us said outright that VS1 = VVS1. We said every lab grades differently, and one lab may consider a VS1 what another considers a VVS1. It’s subjective to each person grading. And with time, standards get more lax, and what was once a VS1 may now be graded as a VVS1 and priced accordingly. And further, to the NAKED HUMAN CONSUMER EYE they are identical. We NEVER said that they were the same. I have posted the same information in response to you multiple times and you have yet to actually read and absorb it before you spew more misinformation.

All my stone are D and H color with vvs1 from GIA.

That's exactly what you said. So yes, I did state that you assume higher color and clarity equals higher quality, and you said you don’t buy anything below D-H or VVS1 clarity because anything less is not high quality. That is YOUR opinion and again, not factual information. So are you changing your story now that you were called out? I better not what? Call you out for stating what you did? You said it, not me.

 

[skphotoimages]

Just as an EGL G might be a GIA H, a GIA VS2 might be EGL SI1..they grade differently.
Here is a good example...a gia vvs2 http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?track=bbt#certViewer_cert_pid=LD01939653|cert_num=1 do you see all that crud right through the center??? This would likely be a EGL SI1 or 2
and another: http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?track=bbt#certViewer_cert_pid=LD01861333|cert_num=1
and another:http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?track=bbt#certViewer_cert_pid=LD02013140|cert_num=1
Ame's and my EGL Vs1 and Vs2's (respectively)blow these out of the water. Ame and Swanky think EGL got their color grading right, I'm pretty sure EGL was off a bit on mine, although it faces up as white as an F stone, when you look at it upside down (like literally up from the pavilion) it's easily a J (it was graded an I).

 

[Swanky]

Wow! My EGL-USA VS1 blows that out of the water too!!! Fascinating. . .

 

[Beenie]

This thread is pretty funny to me since I work at a jewelry store and am a certified gemologist and diamontogist (not by GIA...YET!) and ALL the time people put their noses up at a "better" diamond that is not a GIA graded diamond. I will literally tell people that GIA doesn't make it a better stone but they don't want to hear it. I always tell people, "if you cannot see a difference, why pay the difference" but many times they have been SO brainwashed.

 

[nc.girl]

This thread is pretty funny to me since I work at a jewelry store and am a certified gemologist and diamontogist (not by GIA...YET!) and ALL the time people put their noses up at a "better" diamond that is not a GIA graded diamond. I will literally tell people that GIA doesn't make it a better stone but they don't want to hear it. I always tell people, "if you cannot see a difference, why pay the difference" but many times they have been SO brainwashed.

Good for your business, bad for their wallet! Some jewelers absolutely prey on people with that line of thinking. I commend you for being honest with your clients; I would most definitely appreciate it if I was in your store!

 

[meluvs2shop]

but can't anyone submit their, say, EGL USA stone to a GIA lab accompanied with the stone for a new cert? not saying anyone would want to do this bc a) it costs $ and b) you'll have to part with the stone for awhile and c) is it really worth it?

i guess what i am saying is, i thought any stone could be a GIA cert if you simply submitted it...? am i way off here?

 

[Swanky]

GIA just grades the stone. People just trust that what they say is gospel.

 

[GucciObsessed]

GIA is a non profit organitzation and therefore is inherently more objective in their grading. EGL is a for profit organization. That is not to say that good diamonds cannot be obtained from both. However, if you are particularly looking at resale value, GIA graded stones still command a premium.

 

[Swanky]

People don't buy diamonds FROM them. They grade stones. Just keeping it clear.

 

[Swanky]

Here's a great article I found that explains it:

http://www.jewelryeducator.com/2010/04/gia-vs-egl-certification-the-real-truth-about-diamonds/
GIA vs. EGL Certification – The Real Truth About Diamonds

Apr 15th, 2010 | By admin | Category: Jewelry Information
This question has become more and more important in the recent months. I believe the reason for this is the economy coupled with the obvious price difference between EGL and GIA diamonds. At the time of this article I found a GIA certified 1.00ct Round H-SI2 for $4400 on a website, I found the same diamond with a EGL certification for $3400 on another website. So what gives? Why is there such a huge difference in pricing? The first thing that I want you to realize is that GIA and EGL do not make diamonds! GIA and EGL are not a brand of diamonds, they don’t sell diamonds either. They provide independent grading services for jewelers and diamond wholesalers and could care less how much a diamond sells for or who sells it.

I think the other thing that is important to know is how the certification process takes place and how a diamond moves through distribution channel. When a diamond is first mined it needs to be polished, if you look at the image above you will see how the diamonds look un-cut. Once the diamonds are cut and polished to bring out their natural beauty and brilliance, they need to be graded for color and clarity. Let me just preference this first, the diamond wholesaler is doing the cutting and polishing. He then can choose to sell the diamonds without a certification to a retail jewelry store or have the diamonds certified by one of many grading laboratories. In most cases, the diamond will be certified before it is presented to the jeweler for sale. The increased demand by consumers to have assurances about the color and clarity have encouraged the practice of certifying just about all diamonds before being put on the market.

Now the wholesaler has another choice to make, where do I send this diamond for certification? Let’s eliminate all the possibilities except GIA and EGL. If he/she sends the diamond to GIA it can take up to 6-8 weeks before they receive their diamond back. This is difficult on the wholesaler because he/she has purchased and paid for the diamond already. It’s important for them to be able to sell their goods as soon as possible and GIA will hinder this. EGL on the other hand can return their goods in as little as 2 weeks allowing them to sell almost immediately. You’ve heard the expression…”Time is Money”, right? Case in point, the longer the wholesaler has to wait for his diamonds the more money he has to sell his diamonds for. Let’s assume he/she sends one diamond to EGL and one to GIA and both come back with the same quality grade. In all likelihood, the EGL diamond will sell for 15 – 20% less than the GIA diamond. The reason is because the GIA diamond probably took 6 weeks to get back and the EGL diamond came back 2 weeks. The wholesaler could buy and sell 3 diamonds in the time that it takes for the first diamond to come back from GIA. So when the GIA diamond comes back he has to sell it for more just to catch up with all the profit that he could have made if he chose to use EGL. It’s simply a matter of economics!

The common belief is that GIA is a much stricter lab and that they never make mistakes and that all diamonds graded be EGL would be graded lower if done by GIA, this is a dangerous and naive assumption. How on earth can we assume that every diamond graded by EGL is done incorrectly? I will agree that GIA does swing in a more conservative direction than EGL however, I have seen many diamonds graded by GIA that I believed were done incorrectly. I’ve been buying and selling diamonds for over 20 years and I’ve sold millions and millions of dollars in diamonds, so listen to what I am going to say……..”All grading labs are capable of accuracy and inaccuracy!” So where does that leave the average consumer? In the hands of a honorable local jeweler that has experience and integrity and is willing to help you determine if the GIA or EGL grade is accurate. There’s still is no better way to buy a diamond than to work with an experienced professional that will examine the diamond with you and help you find the hidden values in diamonds. In my opinion, there are more opportunities for hidden values in EGL certified diamonds than GIA diamonds. The only accurate and safe assumption that can be made is that almost all GIA diamonds will sell for 15% – 20% than EGL diamonds.

So with that being said, why not take the time to look at diamonds with EGL certifications to see what you or your local jeweler thinks? Let’s look at a possible scenario….you are considering two diamonds, both are 1.00ct and both are SI1, H, one is graded by EGL and the other by GIA. The EGL certified diamond is $4000 and the GIA certified diamond is $5000, both diamonds are equally brilliant and beautiful. Why wouldn’t you elect to save the $1000? The only proven and non-disputed variable is the real math – the EGL is $1000 less and this point can’t be argued! Ask your jeweler’s opinion, does he think both diamonds are graded accurately? If he says that they are, why wouldn’t you go for the diamond at $4000? Keep this in mind…you can’t take a certification and roll it up in to a nice little ball and set it in an engagement ring. You’re not buying the certification, you are buying the diamond! Notice the extended use of my !’s, this subject drives me nuts because there is so much misconception by consumers and jewelers alike. There are no guarantees that all diamonds certified by GIA are better in any way than a diamond that happens to be certified by EGL.

If you disagree then riddle me this…If I send a diamond to EGL for certification and then I send the exact same diamond to GIA for certification and get the same grading results, does the diamond become more brilliant because it has a GIA certification? Does it become more valuable? The answer on both counts is no, it’s still the same diamond for God’s sake! I get so frustrated because we must remember that we are buying diamonds not the certification. This can become so much simpler for you if you keep these two basic concepts in mind. If you are considering two diamonds that are EGL and GIA certified and they are the same price, same quality, and they both look equally beautiful – then go with the GIA certified diamond. However, if you are considering two diamonds that are the same quality, the jeweler tells you that they are both accurately graded, and the EGL diamond is less – then go with the EGL diamond.

I will say one final thing though, you will never find an EGL certified diamond that sells for the same price as a GIA certified diamond if they are the same color and clarity, the EGL will always be less. On the other hand, you will find plenty of EGL certified diamonds that are graded just as accurately as the same GIA certified diamond for much less money. You just have to do your homework and trust in a professional jeweler to help you make healthy assumptions. The choice is yours!