Authenticate This COACH - **see first post for format**

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#47,869
IMPORTANT READ-ME

Please post authenticity questions related to COACH in this thread. No PMs please.
For further information, please refer to the first post on page 1 of this thread.

Please follow the following requests:
  • Before you submit a request for authentication, please search this thread to make sure that the item has not previously been authenticated by searching the seller ID and/or item number. This is not a thread to ask general questions about COACH, please refer to our main Coach forum for such information.
  • Note that authenticators have the right to refuse any requests. This is a free service, but it is imperative that you help our authenticators by using the following format:
  • FOR ITEMS LISTED ONLINE:
    Item:
    Listing number:
    Seller and site where listed
    Link:
    Comments:

  • FOR ITEMS NOT LISTED ONLINE:
    Item:
    Where purchased or how obtained
    Comments:
BASIC PICTURES REQUIRED (but more may be requested): If necessary pictures are in the listing, it's not necessary to upload and duplicate them.
  • Front of item
  • Back of item
  • Full clear and legible creed text and serial number
  • Made in tags (when available)
  • Measurements
  • For bags with turnlock closures, show pictures of back of female side of turnlock
  • For bags with magnetic snaps, show pictures of the male part of the snap so that the numbers and letters on it can be read
  • If applicable, search interior of bag and/or pockets for small white tag with production information and include a picture of that.
Thank you and be safe!
 
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#61,012
Hyacinth said:
There's nothing in the Salearea Guides that says vintage Coaches HAVE TO HAVE a Talon zipper.

The zipper's pull ring might have had the finish wear off or may have been replaced.

It's genuine, early to mid-1980s
Click to expand...
Thanks. I was referring to the creed in terms of authenticity with help from the sale area guides not about the zipper not having talon on it. My mention of talon on zippers was due to what I come across on listings.
 
#61,013
loverofnicethings said:
Thanks. I was referring to the creed in terms of authenticity with help from the sale area guides not about the zipper not having talon on it. My mention of talon on zippers was due to what I come across on listings.
Click to expand...

I understand. But dozens of zipper brands have been used, so even what was a "usual" brand like Talon or YKK could be replaced by something else depending on availability or even a change in a company's name or ownership, and even the best of brands might have broken and been replaced over the years. I don't even like mentioning zipper brands in posts because there's just too much bad information on the subject. To me it's like waving a red cape in front of a bull. That why I did an entire Salearea guide just on that subject.
 
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#61,014
loverofnicethings said:
Thanks. I was referring to the creed in terms of authenticity with help from the sale area guides not about the zipper not having talon on it. My mention of talon on zippers was due to what I come across on listings.
Click to expand...
It is why is asked if all the vintage Coach companion and vintage Coach basic bags have talon zippers on them or not. I Wasn’t saying that all coaches have them.
 
#61,015
I actually have a similar question to the person about pull rings, above! I received the bag in the listing below recently, and it is absolutely lovely in person. It seemed authentic to me based on my knowledge as well, but the pull for the interior zipper pocket is nickel, which I could actually see once I got it. I thought maybe the pull was a replacement, but then I saw a buckle saddle bag my mom has today (also marked Made in New York City) that has almost an identical zipper pull / zipper (brass looking zipper, with the actually thing that does the zipping more nickel toned and just marked with a trademark, and the pull even more nickel in tone). Photo of the zipper close up attached.

So my question is 1) is this bag authentic? and 2) if so, does anyone know if the NYC factory used nickel tone pulls for some period of time? Or at least ones that were prone to wear to nickel in color? Thank you in advance - I am learning so much from this community!

Item: Vintage COACH leather SADDLE Bag Black Color 4805
Listing number:
303987215805
Seller and site where listed: ebay by chasal_7976
Link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/303987215805
Screen Shot 2021-05-17 at 4.14.20 PM.png
 
#61,017
2cedars said:
I actually have a similar question to the person about pull rings, above! I received the bag in the listing below recently, and it is absolutely lovely in person. It seemed authentic to me based on my knowledge as well, but the pull for the interior zipper pocket is nickel, which I could actually see once I got it. I thought maybe the pull was a replacement, but then I saw a buckle saddle bag my mom has today (also marked Made in New York City) that has almost an identical zipper pull / zipper (brass looking zipper, with the actually thing that does the zipping more nickel toned and just marked with a trademark, and the pull even more nickel in tone). Photo of the zipper close up attached.

So my question is 1) is this bag authentic? and 2) if so, does anyone know if the NYC factory used nickel tone pulls for some period of time? Or at least ones that were prone to wear to nickel in color? Thank you in advance - I am learning so much from this community!

Item: Vintage COACH leather SADDLE Bag Black Color 4805
Listing number:
303987215805
Seller and site where listed: ebay by chasal_7976
Link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/303987215805
View attachment 5086054
Click to expand...

Many of the smaller brass-colored metal bits in vintage bags, INCLUDING MANY COACHES, were just brass-PLATED. It wasn't uncommon for the plating to wear off over the years. Not only are there no records of what kind or quality of metals were sold to Coach by their suppliers, but there's no way we would ever use something like metal colors on small pieces that were probably just plated because of the cost factor as a primary authentication indicator, with a few exceptions. For instance, bags with brass or brass-color buckles should never have nickel-color grommets on the original strap. Of course a strap could have been replaced by a cheaper non-Coach one, which is why that can't be considered proof of it being counterfeit unless backed up by other red flags. Most of the time we never even look at zipper pulls or parts unless a certain bag or line had zipper hardware that was unique to that line.

Authenticity opinions HAVE TO BE BASED on permanent parts of the bag that can't be or probably wouldn't be replaced, like creed and serial number stamp, or even a buckle with a "solid brass" stamp on the back that shouldn't be there. Zippers and zipper parts sometimes WERE replaced. The only red flag in the zipper category is a cheap zipper that broke within just a few years of the bag's indicated manufacture date. A broken zipper on a supposedly genuine Coach is rare and demands a close look at the entire bag.

The bag you asked about is genuine. It's NOT a Saddle bag, it's a Classic Shoulder Bag although it's had other names but never "Saddle Bag", the style number is 9170 and it was made in the early or mid 1980s.
From a 1986 catalog:

9170_Classic Shoulder Bag-1986.jpg
 
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#61,018
Hyacinth said:
Many of the smaller brass-colored metal bits in vintage bags, INCLUDING MANY COACHES, were just brass-PLATED. It wasn't uncommon for the plating to wear off over the years. Not only are there no records of what kind or quality of metals were sold to Coach by their suppliers, but there's no way we would ever use something like metal colors on small pieces that were probably just plated because of the cost factor as a primary authentication indicator, with a few exceptions. For instance, bags with brass or brass-color buckles should never have nickel-color grommets on the original strap. Of course a strap could have been replaced by a cheaper non-Coach one, which is why that can't be considered proof of it being counterfeit unless backed up by other red flags. Most of the time we never even look at zipper pulls or parts unless a certain bag or line had zipper hardware that was unique to that line.

Authenticity opinions HAVE TO BE BASED on permanent parts of the bag that can't be or probably wouldn't be replaced, like creed and serial number stamp, or even a buckle with a "solid brass" stamp on the back that shouldn't be there.

The bag you asked about is genuine. It's NOT a Saddle bag, it's a Classic Shoulder Bag although it's had other names, the style number is 9170 and it was made in the early or mid 1980s.
Click to expand...

That all makes perfect sense! I was wondering about the brass plating - nice to have that confirmed! I knew the title for the listing was...creative...when I purchased it; I'd been looking for a bag this style and it looked like it would clean up nicely. :) Thanks so much for your generous knowledge sharing!
 
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