Would Hermès ever get into the sustainability market?

[eunaddict]

Hermes has built its own idea of sustainability into its company - their products are life-time purchases, are built to last and can be repaired, which is offered by no one other luxury handbag/ lifestyle brand. (one of their mottos is: luxury is that which can be repaired) etc

on the other hand, their operations are so environmentally taxing (dyeing hides etc), it might be hard to argue this in a true environmentally friendly fashion. They are, however, the very opposite of fast fashion (willing to give as much time to their designers and creators as is needed) and as such, encourage more thoughtful consumption.

I know other brands' products generally don't have the longevity of Hermes but I've had bags from Gucci and LV repaired by their respective brands as well; so that service is definitely not limited to Hermes alone.

That being said, I think that there are other ways for luxury brands to be more sustainable without having to enter and control the resell market as well. Cutting down on the amounts produced/purchased per year, reducing how frequently we purchase fast fashion (eg. Zara, H&M etc.), types of dyes and increasing the efficiency of processes used in tanning and dying leather, limiting the amount of waste from production and eliminating any run-offs, stringent chemical controls etc. will all contribute to sustainability without adding that much more strain on most designer companies.

Edited: OT: PT

 

[fabuleux]

Related thought:
I moved to the north last year and started buying serious winter gear for the first time in my life. At first, I bought a lot of fleece and other lightweight items from The North Face but then read up on Patagonia and their eco-friendly ways. Yes, they are more expensive but I have now switched to them. Consumers seem to pay more attention to these things and that’s good!

 

[keodi]

Hi!

Interesting idea for a thread.

Will Hermès have to adapt to future markets and cater to a new type of client/customer at some point? Yes.

Can I personally see Hermès running a "2nd hand"-branch or rental service? No.

Focussing harder on sustainability through recycling, change in/of materials, supply chain, restrictive policies, adapting to markets demands to stay relevant, (...). Yes.

Two things come to mind immediately, thinking of coming/future generations:

- Severing all ties in regard to farming, production and sales of exotic leather items.

- Use of lab grown diamonds where applicable.

Then again, Hermès is Hermès. Just like LV is LV, Rolex is Rolex, (...).

I think we're going to see a lot of hit and misses, on the quest to surviving **** storms, cultural/economical/environmental change and staying relevant, by other big & popular brands first, before we see vast institutions like Hermès move in a definite new direction.

Nothing lasts forever & never say never.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Well said!

 

[keodi]

Sustainability is not a market, it's just become one. Real sustainability is looking after what one has already and not buying more.

There are companies that have specialised in selling second-hand goods for hundreds of years, they're called 'dealers'. Just attaching the word 'sustainability' to their blurb is secondary like their market. Doesn't matter whether they sell antiques, bric-a-brac or ashes from the grate.

Furthermore, Hermès addresses sustainability through Petit H so they use up seconds, cutoffs and overstock and their spa services/aftercare so customers can enjoy their products for decades. Their traditional ethos is based on the core values of sustainability.

Good point papertiger! I never thought of it that way!

 

[lara0112]

I know other brands' products generally don't have the longevity of Hermes but I've had bags from Gucci and LV repaired by their respective brands as well; so that service is definitely not limited to Hermes alone.

.

yes of course others do - but not in the same systematic and integrated manner as H does. Chanel is even ,limiting the bags you can send in for repair, so they are actively discouraging you from reviving and maintaining your 'old' bags. I sincerely feel that LV in particular has been doing the opposite of H and sustainability over the past few years - pochette metis being the prime example.

 

[madamelizaking]

I almost never start new threads, but this is something I've been thinking about a lot lately.

Sustainable fashion, through renting like Rent The Runway or recycling like Eileen Fisher Renew or The Real Real, is an emerging market. Now, I don't think H would ever rent bags - that would feel gauche. But does anyone think there would ever be a day that they would take back their own bags for resale? It has to gall people in H finance when they see a current season bag being resold at a 50%+ markup - that's literally money that could go to H.

There are a number of upsides to this:
Being able to purchase a preloved bag directly from H is a move against counterfeiting
H have always promoted the durability of their bags
H would be able to sell the same bag more than once
Anything around sustainability is good press
It would cut down on bag flippers, people who buy just to resell
It would cut down on unscrupulous SAs who sell bags knowing they're for resale

Potential downsides:
Cutting into the revenue from purchases of new bags
H would need to be competitive with the money/credit that would go to the person selling her bag back

This is just spit-balling on my part. What does everyone else think?

Reselling their own used goods would place them on the same level and prestige as Used Car dealers, with SA’s being comparable with used car salesman. It would destroy the brands reputation.

Also, the bags that typically go for 50%+ on the secondary market are new, and the reason for this is the exclusivity of the brand. With a similar thought process, they could just overproduce items to prevent that from happening. But again, they lose their exclusivity and prestige.

 

[keodi]

yes of course others do - but not in the same systematic and integrated manner as H does. Chanel is even ,limiting the bags you can send in for repair, so they are actively discouraging you from reviving and maintaining your 'old' bags. I sincerely feel that LV in particular has been doing the opposite of H and sustainability over the past few years - pochette metis being the prime example.

I believe this. Chanel to me, has become "throw away luxury" hence why I find it hard to spend the money on a Chanel classic in the re-sale market.

 

[Etriers]

It’s an interesting question. I’m not sure that selling pre-owned bags necessarily equals sustainability. That comes from a corporation’s commitment, responsibility and leadership as good stewards of the earth—doing the right things for people, treating animals humanely, and caring about clean air and water.

Nevertheless, regarding whether H should sell vintage H bags, it isn’t an outrageous idea. Perhaps bags would need to be above a certain price for it to be profitable—maybe $50,000? No idea. Is it practical? Possibly not, but I don’t agree with the argument that taking back their own bags would somehow cheapen the brand. On the contrary, it is exactly H’s willingness to continue to lovingly interact with bags they have manufactured that makes the luxury brand unique and truly luxurious. They don’t just sell a bag and tell their customers “Have a nice day, good luck with that! Whew! Hope we never see that bag again!”

Would a company that stood behind its product and believed so highly in the worth of its product that it would buy it back 10, 20, 30 years later turn you off as a buyer? Not me. If H started offering Vintage bags it would probably drive up demand and prices even further. It would be so cool to see an H Pop-up Vintage event. I think people would go bananas over the possibility of buying a vintage Sac Mallete, or Drag or BBK, or some gorgeous long-forgotten style refurbished by H directly from H. New dustbag and box, tied up in a new H ribbon. There would be a line around the block.

Lexus sells certified pre-owned Lexus vehicles and I have not noticed that doing so has hurt the Lexus brand one iota. If anything, I’d say it increases confidence in the brand. It emphasizes that Lexus stands behind its products and is so confident in the quality of their cars that not only will they sell them the first time with a warranty, they will take them back, “spa” them and sell them again with a warranty.

 

[dooneybaby]

I almost never start new threads, but this is something I've been thinking about a lot lately.

Sustainable fashion, through renting like Rent The Runway or recycling like Eileen Fisher Renew or The Real Real, is an emerging market. Now, I don't think H would ever rent bags - that would feel gauche. But does anyone think there would ever be a day that they would take back their own bags for resale? It has to gall people in H finance when they see a current season bag being resold at a 50%+ markup - that's literally money that could go to H.

There are a number of upsides to this:
Being able to purchase a preloved bag directly from H is a move against counterfeiting
H have always promoted the durability of their bags
H would be able to sell the same bag more than once
Anything around sustainability is good press
It would cut down on bag flippers, people who buy just to resell
It would cut down on unscrupulous SAs who sell bags knowing they're for resale

Potential downsides:
Cutting into the revenue from purchases of new bags
H would need to be competitive with the money/credit that would go to the person selling her bag back

This is just spit-balling on my part. What does everyone else think?

Chanel is talking about doing this.
They're not happy that so many people are buying Chanel on the pre-loved market.
In Chanel's case, a lot of Chanel lovers buy pre-loved because the quality of the older bags is so much better. I think the quality discrepancy should be more of a concern for Chanel than trying to stop Chanel bags from being sold on the secondary market.

 

[katriona]

I almost never start new threads, but this is something I've been thinking about a lot lately.

Sustainable fashion, through renting like Rent The Runway or recycling like Eileen Fisher Renew or The Real Real, is an emerging market. Now, I don't think H would ever rent bags - that would feel gauche. But does anyone think there would ever be a day that they would take back their own bags for resale? It has to gall people in H finance when they see a current season bag being resold at a 50%+ markup - that's literally money that could go to H.

There are a number of upsides to this:
Being able to purchase a preloved bag directly from H is a move against counterfeiting
H have always promoted the durability of their bags
H would be able to sell the same bag more than once
Anything around sustainability is good press
It would cut down on bag flippers, people who buy just to resell
It would cut down on unscrupulous SAs who sell bags knowing they're for resale

Potential downsides:
Cutting into the revenue from purchases of new bags
H would need to be competitive with the money/credit that would go to the person selling her bag back

This is just spit-balling on my part. What does everyone else think?

I think it’s an interesting concept, especially when I notice that, at least in the silk accessories department I see second hand scarves that have proved themselves as the most desirable frequently selling for far higher on online consignment than their original price in the Hermes boutiques. I used to look for great prices on resold scarves on eBay, malleries, etc. ....no more. It’s less expensive in many cases to buy at source. I often wonder what Hermes makes of the vast amounts of money being made on resale items...the idea of limited editions creates the interest and the passion to acquire what you missed the first time around...

 

[katriona]

It’s an interesting question. I’m not sure that selling pre-owned bags necessarily equals sustainability. That comes from a corporation’s commitment, responsibility and leadership as good stewards of the earth—doing the right things for people, treating animals humanely, and caring about clean air and water.

Nevertheless, regarding whether H should sell vintage H bags, it isn’t an outrageous idea. Perhaps bags would need to be above a certain price for it to be profitable—maybe $50,000? No idea. Is it practical? Possibly not, but I don’t agree with the argument that taking back their own bags would somehow cheapen the brand. On the contrary, it is exactly H’s willingness to continue to lovingly interact with bags they have manufactured that makes the luxury brand unique and truly luxurious. They don’t just sell a bag and tell their customers “Have a nice day, good luck with that! Whew! Hope we never see that bag again!”

Would a company that stood behind its product and believed so highly in the worth of its product that it would buy it back 10, 20, 30 years later turn you off as a buyer? Not me. If H started offering Vintage bags it would probably drive up demand and prices even further. It would be so cool to see an H Pop-up Vintage event. I think people would go bananas over the possibility of buying a vintage Sac Mallete, or Drag or BBK, or some gorgeous long-forgotten style refurbished by H directly from H. New dustbag and box, tied up in a new H ribbon. There would be a line around the block.

Lexus sells certified pre-owned Lexus vehicles and I have not noticed that doing so has hurt the Lexus brand one iota. If anything, I’d say it increases confidence in the brand. It emphasizes that Lexus stands behind its products and is so confident in the quality of their cars that not only will they sell them the first time with a warranty, they will take them back, “spa” them and sell them again with a warranty.

This is a great idea....archival bag sales!

 

[bluerosespf]

I'm lucky enough that I don't have to go to resale for current bags (B/K/C), but if you miss a color or a bag is discontinued, resale is your only option. I'd much rather get a pre-loved bag from H where they will stand behind its authenticity.

But the amateur economist in me is fascinated by the amount of money a bag sold and resold produces in total. Like H sells a new B for $12,000. Then someone flips that bag for $18,000 (spitballing off the prices I see on the RealReal). THEN the person who buys that bag consigns it later for $12,000. So a $12,000 bag has produced $42,000 in revenue, $30,000 of which H never sees.

 

[Hobbiezm]

It’s an interesting question that I was discussing with my SA at Meatpacking boutique- she happened to mention Hermes internally in investing heavily in sustainability - from their skins ( exotics) to their silk - they are ensuring the next generation of clients are also interested in the way the company is heading. For example - the beading done in the cashmere throws are produced in India; they ensure the staff are paid good salaries and also kept into continuing their education.

I understand that the quality but when the company moves towards these initiatives, it makes me as a customer willing to pay more.

 

[keodi]

Chanel is talking about doing this.
They're not happy that so many people are buying Chanel on the pre-loved market.
In Chanel's case, a lot of Chanel lovers buy pre-loved because the quality of the older bags is so much better. I think the quality discrepancy should be more of a concern for Chanel than trying to stop Chanel bags from being sold on the secondary market.

I agree!