Workplace What have you negotiated for, professionally?

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^apey_grapey Did not at all take it as criticism. And hope you don't take my responses that way either. Just discussion.

That study is definitely what I experienced. Yup.

 

[ForeverInPink]

I love stories like this! Clearly it's not easy to set out on your own and ask for what you want, but if you want it and practice, it's possible!



My mother, after years in a consulting firm, got up her courage and walk away to start her own business (I've learned so much from her too). She went through the same thing you did. In the first year or so, she set her rates at average or below average. She's slowly worked her rates up to where now she thinks there's a good balance between the amount of work she can take in and the number of clients willing to pay for her work.



I also subscribe a bit to fake it til you make it. Not completely comfortable, but getting there.



Ok, enough procrastinating for me. I got a meeting in 30 minutes :doggie:

What a wonderful role model your mother must have been for you. It's so great she did that, and that you have started this thread to inspire other women as well.

Yes, I have been in many anxiety provoking career situations in my life and it has always served me well to try to act the part until it came more naturally.

I like to tell myself that in negotiating for myself I am also furthering the cause of women because it's true, it usually doesn't occur to most of us to do that. Lol I once had a gypsy cab driver tell me he was stunned when I bargained him down for a cab ride to the airport. He said many men do it but NEVER women!!! I still remember fondly the look of awe and respect in his eyes (he was pretty young).

 

[prettysquare]

You managed to negotiate a gypsy cab after you got in? Wow. Skills.

I've asked dispatch if I can get a certain rate before, but it never worked because I lived in a cab-scarce part of the city. The black cabs can get the rate they want.

Yes, my mother has been a tremendous role model. I don't give her enough credit sometimes. Still, it took her years (decades) to get to where she is now after she was passed over for promotions, offices, project travel that went to her male colleagues. I don't think she regrets it though, which is the best attitude to have.

 

[ForeverInPink]

^Lol no, I always negotiate with the drivers BEFORE getting in. It's one I picked up on the fly, I never call in for them if I can find one roaming around on the street.

 

[juneping]

i think a lot of men inclined to negotiate about their pay or position in the company or vacation days. i would like to try it one day. when i got my current job, i really needed to get the h*ll out, so i accepted the offer. it was a good offer...but sometimes i wonder if i could have asked more....
in my field sometimes the pay can be so different. i remembered when i interviewed for a job, i asked just 3K more than what i was making. the woman who interviewed me chuckled (not in a nice way) and said it's way too high. i was like, do you want me to work for free? of course i didn't say that.

 

[LVk8]

Any advice for how to present yourself during negotiation (or even just a more formal business meeting)?

I look young for my age, which has both helped an hindered in the past. I always wonder whether I appear authoritative. I know eventually, it should only matter what I'm saying, but part of me thinks how I look and my body language must be important. Thoughts?

In my last corporate job, I had a role where I regularly negotiated land contracts with people of varying ages, usually much older, since landowners with significant acreage tend to be elder statesmen.

Our boss basically sat half the department down to advise us to "age ourselves up" in meetings since we all had baby faces. Hair neatly tied back (or for the men cut short), no flashy eyeglasses, conservative makeup, no crazy haircuts/colors, hide controversial piercings/tattoos, etc to portray a sense of maturity. Obviously you can also convey that with your words, speaking voice and body language but first impressions are often based upon appearances and a handshake. Especially so when you look like you could be the granddaughter/son of the person you're negotiating with.

A#1 for speaking is if you have any kind of subconscious habits in your speech, e.g., "like" "y'know" "ummm" or ending statements in a question mark work on those immediately. I had to take about 6 months to drop the word "like" from my speech and it was tough -- essentially I wore a rubber band on my wrist & snapped myself every time I caught myself saying "like" and also instructed every person close to me to snap it if I said "like" and didn't notice it. It was not easy to break myself of the habit but it has paid off tremendously in my ability to be perceived as a serious professional in meetings and presentations.

Also work on relaxing your body language - no tapping your feet or playing with your hands or hair - a relaxed person portrays confidence!

Good luck in your first couple negotiations! Practice also makes perfect so doing mock negotiations (even with friends/classmates) is helpful. Not to mention any public speaking practice you can do will help with all of this stuff. I'm in my early 30s and now have significant experience with negotiations and presentations but I was a hot mess when I first started my career so don't sweat it if you need to work at it. Whether you're negotiating for salary or to win business - or even for better prices on any other product/service in life - the way you present yourself will take you far if you can do it well

 

[ForeverInPink]

In my last corporate job, I had a role where I regularly negotiated land contracts with people of varying ages, usually much older, since landowners with significant acreage tend to be elder statesmen.

Our boss basically sat half the department down to advise us to "age ourselves up" in meetings since we all had baby faces. Hair neatly tied back (or for the men cut short), no flashy eyeglasses, conservative makeup, no crazy haircuts/colors, hide controversial piercings/tattoos, etc to portray a sense of maturity. Obviously you can also convey that with your words, speaking voice and body language but first impressions are often based upon appearances and a handshake. Especially so when you look like you could be the granddaughter/son of the person you're negotiating with.

A#1 for speaking is if you have any kind of subconscious habits in your speech, e.g., "like" "y'know" "ummm" or ending statements in a question mark work on those immediately. I had to take about 6 months to drop the word "like" from my speech and it was tough -- essentially I wore a rubber band on my wrist & snapped myself every time I caught myself saying "like" and also instructed every person close to me to snap it if I said "like" and didn't notice it. It was not easy to break myself of the habit but it has paid off tremendously in my ability to be perceived as a serious professional in meetings and presentations.

Also work on relaxing your body language - no tapping your feet or playing with your hands or hair - a relaxed person portrays confidence!

Good luck in your first couple negotiations! Practice also makes perfect so doing mock negotiations (even with friends/classmates) is helpful. Not to mention any public speaking practice you can do will help with all of this stuff. I'm in my early 30s and now have significant experience with negotiations and presentations but I was a hot mess when I first started my career so don't sweat it if you need to work at it. Whether you're negotiating for salary or to win business - or even for better prices on any other product/service in life - the way you present yourself will take you far if you can do it well

Great tips!

 

[prettysquare]

I look forward to hearing your story when you do decide to try Asking for extra is the first small step, and you'll eventually get better at it and someone will say YES. Was this after they had already made you an offer? Or was this just in the interview phase? The timing can be very critical.

In terms of how to respond when someone does that, I have a few ideas, but unless you try them at the time, you won't know if they work. I probably would have told her "it doesn't have to be exactly that amount or even directly related to monetary compensation, but I do want to hear from you what sort of benefits we CAN negotiate on because I feel the offer doesn't match what I'm looking for".

Put her in the hot spot where she has to either tell you straight up "We can negotiate on nothing" (And try to look skeptical when they say this, as this is unlikely because if they want you at all, they'll be willing to negotiate on something), or she'll give you valuable information on what sorts of things she can negotiate on (vacation? bonus? employer contribution to 401k? better title?). I try to think of questions that can get me more information about the other person's position.

i think a lot of men inclined to negotiate about their pay or position in the company or vacation days. i would like to try it one day. when i got my current job, i really needed to get the h*ll out, so i accepted the offer. it was a good offer...but sometimes i wonder if i could have asked more....
in my field sometimes the pay can be so different. i remembered when i interviewed for a job, i asked just 3K more than what i was making. the woman who interviewed me chuckled (not in a nice way) and said it's way too high. i was like, do you want me to work for free? of course i didn't say that.

 

[prettysquare]

In my last corporate job, I had a role where I regularly negotiated land contracts with people of varying ages, usually much older, since landowners with significant acreage tend to be elder statesmen.

Our boss basically sat half the department down to advise us to "age ourselves up" in meetings since we all had baby faces. Hair neatly tied back (or for the men cut short), no flashy eyeglasses, conservative makeup, no crazy haircuts/colors, hide controversial piercings/tattoos, etc to portray a sense of maturity. Obviously you can also convey that with your words, speaking voice and body language but first impressions are often based upon appearances and a handshake. Especially so when you look like you could be the granddaughter/son of the person you're negotiating with.

A#1 for speaking is if you have any kind of subconscious habits in your speech, e.g., "like" "y'know" "ummm" or ending statements in a question mark work on those immediately. I had to take about 6 months to drop the word "like" from my speech and it was tough -- essentially I wore a rubber band on my wrist & snapped myself every time I caught myself saying "like" and also instructed every person close to me to snap it if I said "like" and didn't notice it. It was not easy to break myself of the habit but it has paid off tremendously in my ability to be perceived as a serious professional in meetings and presentations.

Also work on relaxing your body language - no tapping your feet or playing with your hands or hair - a relaxed person portrays confidence!

Good luck in your first couple negotiations! Practice also makes perfect so doing mock negotiations (even with friends/classmates) is helpful. Not to mention any public speaking practice you can do will help with all of this stuff. I'm in my early 30s and now have significant experience with negotiations and presentations but I was a hot mess when I first started my career so don't sweat it if you need to work at it. Whether you're negotiating for salary or to win business - or even for better prices on any other product/service in life - the way you present yourself will take you far if you can do it well

Love these tips.
Practice does make perfect. I agree wholeheartedly with practicing public speaking. Take every opportunity to do it. I would volunteer at work for journal club presentations, or lunch-and-learn seminars. Sometimes the presentations are as lame as "How to use Excel pivot tables and data filters" (BORING!!!!). But it works, I know my presentation has gotten better. I'm louder, clearer, and can put together a better "story" for the audience.

Fidgeting is a big problem for me. If I don't pay attention, I know I look like a nervous person (even if I'm not actually nervous). I try to just clasp my hand together in front of me if I'm sitting or standing.

 

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LVk8 had the tip about snapping a rubber band when you say filler works (um, like, hmm). I learned another one from a professor in uni. Whenever someone said a filler word during a presentation, the entire class would clap at them. You very very quickly stopped saying those filling words. Better silence than filler!

I've also been in the situation before where I was so eager for the job (I wanted to move to NYC, it was the first company that gave me an interview), that I took the offer immediately and with zero resistance. I reasoned that it was a good offer, but honestly, I was afraid the opportunity would somehow disappear if I negotiated. I know this is quite silly now, the company would not have withdrawn their offer just because I wanted to negotiate. It might have taken a few days or a week longer to get the contract signed, but they certainly wouldn't have taken the offer away.

I think it's very important in a work or salary negotiation to remember that you still have to be likeable (you eventually have to work with these people!). At least that's how I see it. I try to keep in mind to be positive, after all, no matter where the negotiation ends up, it's probably going to be better than where you started at (if not exactly where you started at).

 

[prettysquare]

^Lol no, I always negotiate with the drivers BEFORE getting in. It's one I picked up on the fly, I never call in for them if I can find one roaming around on the street.

Haha, timing is so important. With cabs it's before you get your foot in the door!
But with jobs, it's just after you get your foot in the door! (As in, after they give you an offer on paper).

Seriously, there are so many nuanced ways in which an employer can get you to semi-commit to a salary before they've even given you an official offer. Like:

- Pre-interview, asking you to fill in their HR statistics form and wanting to you fill in what your desired compensation is. Don't fill that in! Or write "consistent with my experience".
- During interview, asking directly your desired salary range. Just say "I want to be compensated fairly and I'm more than happy to negotiate on some of those terms", "I really can't give you a number, it depends on other factors that we might negotiate", "well, it really depends on your whole compensation offer, I wouldn't feel comfortable condensing that to just one salary number". Whatever, just try not to say a number.
- At the end of the interview, they might say "would you be willing to take $X?". Don't say yes or no. Say "Please send that to me in writing so I can see all the terms, I'd like to think about it carefully" or "I'd like to go home and think about that before I answer you, it'd be great if you can provide that in writing so I can see all the terms".

In many ways the employer has the power and prior knowledge of wage/rates. The employee's power is in their inherent value. Until you say a number, the employer doesn't know what it is (they know a range, but they don't know the exact number). And you don't know their range. The first person who says a number, gives away that valuable information. I realize how "game-y" this sounds, but...I think even if you don't play, you should know the rules and what you might give up by not playing.

 

[LVk8]

LVk8 had the tip about snapping a rubber band when you say filler works (um, like, hmm). I learned another one from a professor in uni. Whenever someone said a filler word during a presentation, the entire class would clap at them. You very very quickly stopped saying those filling words. Better silence than filler!

That is good!

I had a prof who was one of my best presentation coaches. Each student had to be prepared with a slide deck for every class & the prof would call on people randomly to present. He would start at the door and take one step closer to you every time you spoke a filler word or did something distracting with your body language in your presentation. If he made it all the way to you, he had you sit down and called on someone else to present their slides. (When he got really close the whole class would be giggling with each next step...). That's where I learned that I had a serious "like" problem on my hands & set to work on it.

Intimidating but it worked! I hated it at the time but now I'm glad that I had such a good teacher.

 

[L etoile]

I was able to negotiate a signing bonus, but couldn't get them to budge on my salary. Until recently, I had no idea that you could negotiate other things (i.e. vacation days, continuing education money, etc.). I really wish I had known that!

 

[prettysquare]

That is good!

I had a prof who was one of my best presentation coaches. Each student had to be prepared with a slide deck for every class & the prof would call on people randomly to present. He would start at the door and take one step closer to you every time you spoke a filler word or did something distracting with your body language in your presentation. If he made it all the way to you, he had you sit down and called on someone else to present their slides. (When he got really close the whole class would be giggling with each next step...). That's where I learned that I had a serious "like" problem on my hands & set to work on it.

Intimidating but it worked! I hated it at the time but now I'm glad that I had such a good teacher.

I didn't have anything like a presentation coach, but that class you described sounds both terrifying and extremely useful. The kind of thing you appreciate in hindsight!

Probably the most useful course I took in undergrad was called "Technical Writing". We also covered things like presentations. It was all about how to take technical knowledge and present it in a way so that it's clear and convincing for the average person. The stuff I learned there has probably been applicable to everything I've done since then.

Definitely recommend a course of that type to anyone who wants to improve their communication skills (written and spoken). EDIT: I guess this might be a no brainer for people who went through the liberal arts programs. However, in my experience, communication skills are not taught well enough to many engineers and scientists.

 

[LVk8]

I didn't have anything like a presentation coach, but that class you described sounds both terrifying and extremely useful. The kind of thing you appreciate in hindsight!

Probably the most useful course I took in undergrad was called "Technical Writing". We also covered things like presentations. It was all about how to take technical knowledge and present it in a way so that it's clear and convincing for the average person. The stuff I learned there has probably been applicable to everything I've done since then.

Definitely recommend a course of that type to anyone who wants to improve their communication skills (written and spoken). EDIT: I guess this might be a no brainer for people who went through the liberal arts programs. However, in my experience, communication skills are not taught well enough to many engineers and scientists.

That class was a case study class but what I really learned were presentation skills. Making slides more effective (pictures vs words), speaking effectively, etc. so intimidating but so useful!!