What do people think of PETA?

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caannie said:
I believe in the ethical treatment of animals, but not in PETA. For one thing, PETA believes that people should not eat meat, at all. Nor drink cow's milk. Nor use any animals for any purposes. There is a difference to me between milking cows and torturing them.

Now, I appreciate the respectful and intelligent discussions of PETA's juxtaposition of the Holocaust with animal cruelty, but as a Jewish person I felt and still do feel that PETA was WAY out of line using images of the Holocaust in reference to animal suffering. No living creature should be made to suffer, and calling the meat industry or any animal industry a "holocaust" does not offend me, but likening it to THE Holocaust does. The intent of the Holocaust was to wipe out an entire race of human beings... extinction of a race. Clearly that is not the intent of the beef industry towards its cattle, nor the intent of other industries that put animals in our food chain.

It was in extremely poor taste for PETA to use images of the Holocaust in its advertising. For that reason alone I would never support their organization. Likening the lives of 6,000,000 human beings murdered for their religious and political beliefs to the lives of livestock demeans those that died. It's reprehensible.


Do you think that it makes any difference to each individual animal, that although it is suffering intolerable agony, at least the intent is not to wipe out its whole species?

Surely, Hitler would, rightfully, be despised even more than he already is (if that is possible!), if he had intentionally and repeatedly bred people to skin, or boil, alive?

Especially if he did this purely for the unnecessary vanity of draping their skin across his body and carelessly discarded their flesh.

Why is it so offensive to logically point out our similarity to animals and how they can suffer, just as we can (or have)?
 
Danica said:
Thanks Kathleen37 and MandM for educated responses! its refreshing.
Caitlin...PETA, like any group who goes undercover cannot do anything when they are making the video's so they don't blow their cover! I don't understand the apparent mystery in that. They need to bring those people down so they don't continue that cruelty in the future and they need proof...and lots of it.

Bagnshoo- I assure you that many animals are skinned alive, and there has recently been news of dogs and cats being skinned alive in Asia...is it really that unbelievable? I don't understand what you mean by 'agenda' who's agenda- the news channels that report on it?? is everyone just making this up?

I was referring to legitimate slaughter houses and other legitimate businesses in the US that are under incredibly strict USDA guidelines per the Animal Welfare act. (the USDA does not mess around). I'm sure these practices do go on like you said overseas but I do not see PETA doing anything constructive to combat that. The agenda I refer to as well are extremist, militant so called animal rights groups. (and yes, there are news stations that blatantly twist the truth on some matters)
 
chloehandbags said:
Do you think that it makes any difference to each individual animal, that although it is suffering intolerable agony, at least the intent is not to wipe out its whole species?

Surely, Hitler would, rightfully, be despised even more than he already is (if that is possible!), if he had intentionally and repeatedly bred people to skin, or boil, alive?

Especially if he did this purely for the unnecessary vanity of draping their skin across his body and carelessly discarded their flesh.

Why is it so offensive to logically point out our similarity to animals and how they can suffer, just as we can (or have)?

It's offensive, because no matter how much we love animals, human life is inherently more valuable. The slaughter of chicken for food is in no way, shape, or form the same as the systematic roundup and evil murder of HUMAN BEINGS. Who, by the way, did have their gold teeth pulled out and melted down. Their hair used for mattresses/pillows. Their skin used as lampshades. And their ashes used for soap.

There is no logical step from the Holocaust to abuse of animals. While I do believe there is a connection between those who torture and abuse animals who then go on to commit horrific murder of humans (i.e. Jeffrey Dahmer sp?) it does not mean that we should place equal importance on the life of a dog versus an animal (and I am FULLY in love with my doggies who are my babies).

Just because someone is nice to animals doesn't automatically make them a good person either. Hitler was a vegetarian (or so I hear) and loved animals. And I doubt anyone would argue for him as a humanitarian.
 
chloehandbags said:
Do you think that it makes any difference to each individual animal, that although it is suffering intolerable agony, at least the intent is not to wipe out its whole species?

Surely, Hitler would, rightfully, be despised even more than he already is (if that is possible!), if he had intentionally and repeatedly bred people to skin, or boil, alive?

Especially if he did this purely for the unnecessary vanity of draping their skin across his body and carelessly discarded their flesh.

Why is it so offensive to logically point out our similarity to animals and how they can suffer, just as we can (or have)?
:blink: :wtf: ok i will not comment that or else i will get banned but please think about what you just said :censor:
 
chloehandbags said:
Do you think that it makes any difference to each individual animal, that although it is suffering intolerable agony, at least the intent is not to wipe out its whole species?

Surely, Hitler would, rightfully, be despised even more than he already is (if that is possible!), if he had intentionally and repeatedly bred people to skin, or boil, alive?

Especially if he did this purely for the unnecessary vanity of draping their skin across his body and carelessly discarded their flesh.

Why is it so offensive to logically point out our similarity to animals and how they can suffer, just as we can (or have)?

I think we are all on the same page here when it comes to animal/human suffering. The whole point of this thread was singling out ONE organization - PETA and how their methods are more of a hinderance than a help. Thats all.
 
IntlSet said:
The good thing about PETA is that they DO bring attention to the issue with their crazy antics.

you mean like "rescuing" hundreds of cats and dogs from shelters only to euthanize them themselves and dump them in the trash? you mean like setting peoples houses on fire? they are out of control and their antics bring more negative attention to their causes than anything else. If they want to get their point across, they need peoples respect, not condemnation.
 
MandM said:
I may get slammed here, but feel the need to explain something:

When most scholars and activists discuss the connection between the Holocaust (or slavery) and the abuse and slaughter of animals, they are NOT trying to say that killing animals and killing jews, blacks, or ANY people are the SAME. They are instead trying to argue that the conscious enaction of cruelty and the knowing infliction of pain for reasons of personal gain (to make money, eat nicer food, have someone do work for you, or advance a racist ideology) is ALWAYS wrong. Cruelty is a moral outrage, no matter who the victim is.

It may, of course, be much more hideous to attempt to exterminate an entire group of people than it is to participate in torturing animals -- but both are unkind, cruel, and senseless. Just as it is "worse" to steal a million dollars from a children's charity than it is to take a twenty dollar bill from a wealthy neighbor -- yet both are still "wrong" and quite mean.

Unfortunately, the way that our modern farming and fur industries are constructed, animals are not simply killed as part of the "food chain." They are systematically tortured in the process. Many companion and work animals are also treated brutally throughout the world.

Though I don't always agree with PETA's practices, they really believe that they are living in the prescence of HORRIBLE cruelty, so feel justified in using forceful techniques -- just as so many people felt justified in standing up against slavery and genocide with violence.

Furthermore, many of you may be interested in ETERNAL TREBLINKA, by Charles Patterson. He demonstrates that the major architects of the Nazi Holocaust -- Himmler and Borman, for example -- had been heavily involved in animal agriculture and "genetic breeding" before they joined the nazi party. They applied their ideas about breeding "higher" types of animals to their vicious racial policies. Indeed, before the nazis tried to eliminate jews, they argued that the mentally ill should be sterilized and euthanized so that they didn't "breed."

Patterson further argues that the introduction of industrial farming and factory style slaughter-houses DESENSITIZED people to routine pain and violence. The people who watched cows screaming in agony while they hung from butcher hooks were "practicing" to torture people in similar ways -- they were learning to detach themselves from torture and death.

Anytime it becomes culturally acceptable to inflict pain and suffering on other living things it puts ALL people in danger. Everytime a child learns that it's not a "big deal" to set a dog on fire, or to torture a goose in order to destroy its liver and get foi gras, that child is being "prepared" to turn the other way when he sees human beings suffering.

Anyway, that's my long-winded theory about cruelty. It's always wrong no matter who the victim, and cruelty towards any living creature damages our entire culture and makes it more likely that we will be "prepped" to turn on each other. (of course the holocaust is much worse than the factory farm -- but they are absolutely related to each other in profound ways)

Btw, am I "perfect" about not using animal products in any way? No. Do I think about that fact and feel guilty about it every day? Yes. I don't believe that makes me a "better" person than anyone else, but I do believe that we should all try to be aware of the reality that we help to shape. Sadly, that reality currently includes brutal industrialized farming and fur industries, as well as many abused companion animals.

Another quick "btw" -- I do disagree with Peta's position on animals as pets and in zoos. I believe that well cared for and kindly treated pets and zoo animals can be just as happy as animals in the wild. Just as I am happier in an air conditioned house with indoor plumbing than I would be living in the "natural" condition, some animals may adapt nicely to modern life. It all depends on how they are treated.


I always knew you were a genius MandM! :biggrin:

Whether we eat meat, or, even, wear fur is, of course, legally, completely up to us. But it is completely illogical (and tantamount to lying to ourselves), if we try to salve our consciences, by telling ourselves that it's morally sound, or humanely carried out, or that the only people who care about it are nut cases!

Whether you 'like' PETA or not, please don't deny the undoubted and proven torture that these animals go through, every day. :sad:


Edit: Thought I should point out that those last comments were general, not to you, MandM!
 
MissV said:
TUNA HAS DOLPHIN IN IT?!?!?!?

:throwup: :crybaby: :sad: :yucky:

No, there's no dolphin in tuna. You have to make sure it says dolphin safe on the can because before, the nets catching the tuna would accidentally snare dolphins, too.

(Dolphins eat tuna, so where there's dolphins, there's tuna).

I don't know how they do it but there's a way to catch tuna without running the risk of dolphins getting snared in the nets.
 
bagnshoofetish said:
you mean like "rescuing" hundreds of cats and dogs from shelters only to euthanize them themselves and dump them in the trash? you mean like setting peoples houses on fire? they are out of control and their antics bring more negative attention to their causes than anything else. If they want to get their point across, they need peoples respect, not condemnation.

Are those rogue PETA members? I didn't realize PETA was that destructive. I thought throwing paint on fur-wearers was the extent of it.

I do remember when they released a bunch of minks from a mink farm into the wild. That was a dumb move.
 
lilach said:
:blink: :wtf: ok i will not comment that or else i will get banned but please think about what you just said :censor:


Please don't misunderstand me.

I have been as horrified about and disgusted by the Holocaust as it is possible to be, for as long as I have known about it (since I was a child).

Caring deeply about people, shouldn't need to be proven by showing you don't care as much about animals.

It is not an either/or situation.
 
IntlSet said:
Are those rogue PETA members? I didn't realize PETA was that destructive. I thought throwing paint on fur-wearers was the extent of it.

I do remember when they released a bunch of minks from a mink farm into the wild. That was a dumb move.

From what I understand, no they are no 'rogue'. They are PETA members and not just random people. The case when they "rescued" animals only to go kill them (and dump them in dumpsters afterward) just made me sick.

And it was completely illogical to release minks into the wild when they were just going to go out and get eaten. They had no skills for the wild. So yeah, pretty dumb. :smile:
 
IntlSet said:
Are those rogue PETA members? I didn't realize PETA was that destructive. I thought throwing paint on fur-wearers was the extent of it.

I do remember when they released a bunch of minks from a mink farm into the wild. That was a dumb move.

I would like to think it was "rogue" members except that it happened in more than a couple of cities. And yes the mink thing, thats isn't the first time they did something like that without thinking it completely through and considering the environmental damage they caused - not to mention that I'd like to know how many of those minks ended up as dinner for the local predators....
 
also a while back alot of ferrets were released into the wild and darn near wiped out a very important local species causing an imbalance in that natural environment. All alot of their actions prove to me is how little respect and understanding they actually do have for the animal kingdom.
 
CastoCreations said:
It's offensive, because no matter how much we love animals, human life is inherently more valuable.


Perhaps to you. Who puts a value on life? Humans?

Aren't you being speciesist? Isn't that quite similar to racism?

Why can't I care strongly and equally about both, if that's how I feel?


The slaughter of chicken for food is in no way, shape, or form the same as the systematic roundup and evil murder of HUMAN BEINGS. Who, by the way, did have their gold teeth pulled out and melted down. Their hair used for mattresses/pillows. Their skin used as lampshades. And their ashes used for soap.


I live in England with a war obsessed man. Unfortunately, I have seen at least 30 documentaries on the unbearably horrific practices of the Nazis.

I just wonder why human beings constantly try to weigh up who, or what, is more important?

Isn't that the type of thinking that lead to the Holocaust in the first place?

What's so wrong with the equal right to a life free from torture?



There is no logical step from the Holocaust to abuse of animals. While I do believe there is a connection between those who torture and abuse animals who then go on to commit horrific murder of humans (i.e. Jeffrey Dahmer sp?) it does not mean that we should place equal importance on the life of a dog versus an animal (and I am FULLY in love with my doggies who are my babies).


I repeat - why do we have to constantly line things and people up in order of importance?



Just because someone is nice to animals doesn't automatically make them a good person either. Hitler was a vegetarian (or so I hear) and loved animals. And I doubt anyone would argue for him as a humanitarian.


Very true.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that someone who loves animals, but hates humans, is good; or, for that matter, sane!!!
 
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