thanks everyone! yeah i am not sure if i should go the baby wipe route and then take them to a cobbler or just take them first. i don't know where i should go though. i don't get up to new york very often and i know some of the best cobblers are up there. the VNs are gorgeous but they really just need some love and care to be restored. i am sure some CLs get so very abused, and these have not been, but even to see the dark tinge of these bothers me. they're definitely not stains, just a general grey tinge. if they were mine from the start they'd never have gotten this dirty. oh well, i got them for less than $200, i don't know why i am complaining. lol.