Tiffany E-ring, triple x, bad HCA

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A

alicegarden

Member
Jul 16, 2015
5
0
#1
Hi, I'm a long-time reader, first-time poster ;), so, we have been looking at engagement rings for a while, pretty sure I want a Tiffany setting, I know many people say you are paying more for the name, can get better online etc but for my e-ring, just want that experience and the whole Tiffany shebang. I do want the best stone I can get from them however. Have been sent the below:

CARAT WEIGHT 0.990 carat
COLOR GRADE F
FLUORESCENCE Medium Blue
PRESENCE
PRECISION OF CUT Excellent
SYMMETRY Excellent
POLISH Excellent
CLARITY GRADE VS1
ENHANCEMENTS None
(Besides Cut/Polishing)
CUT PROPORTIONS
TOTAL DEPTH PERCENTAGE 62.4%
TABLE SIZE PERCENTAGE 59%
CROWN HEIGHT PERCENTAGE 14.8%
CROWN ANGLE 35.1°
PAVILION DEPTH PERCENTAGE 43.7%
PAVILION ANGLE 41.2°
GIRDLE THICKNESS Medium To Slightly Thick
GIRDLE FINISH Faceted
CULET None
LOWER HALF LENGTH PERCENTAGE 77%
STAR LENGTH PERCENTAGE 55%

I put the measurements into HCA and it came out as 4.3, so not good and I know a lot of people advise to steer clear on that basis if over a 2 on HCA. I want around a carat, really as close as possible but just under. I don't mind the flourescence, although it is a bit annoying as as we are paying for an F colour.

My question is, although the triple excellent score, as I am quite a way from the Tiffany store to view so does the HCA score alone count it out? I know it is quite 'deep' but from what I have been reading Tiffany cuts seem to be on the deep side on the whole? Does anyone have any thoughts on whether to hold out for better measurements? This ring in terms of carat, colour, budget ticks a lot of boxes for us and I am a bit worried about disappearing fully down the rabbit hole in waiting for the 'perfect' ring.

Thanks!
 
#3
Use the cut guidelines linked above. If you want well cut, DO NOT go outside of them. And don't expect to find many within them since Tiffany doesn't value cut quality. You'll have to be patient if you want a well cut stone from that brand. For as much as they're going to charge you for this thing, make that SA work for you.

This particular stone is not getting a good HCA for a reason and it is NOT a Triple Excellent by any stretch of the imagination--if it were it would be graded as such by a reputable lab and have decent numbers. The "Tiffany Triple Excellent" is all marketing and sales rhetoric--IGNORE Tiffany's "cut grade" because they are not qualified to grade cut. They are not a reputable third party lab, they are a retailer. This stone is not cut well, period and this is why:

1) TOTAL DEPTH PERCENTAGE 62.4%
Too Deep. Keep it between 59.5 and 61.8.

2)TABLE SIZE PERCENTAGE 59%[
F'ing HUGE. Just NO. Keep it between 55 and 57.

3) CROWN ANGLE 35.1° and PAVILION ANGLE 41.2°
Do not go together. Ideally you want a 34.5 CA and a 40.7 or 40.8 PA. That would be secret sauce. Those two together do not line up so this thing is a perfect storm of fail.

Regarding Fluorescence: Why is that "annoying because you are paying for F color?" It's a naturally occurring trait, and in higher color stones can be very beautiful, not to mention can help make your F look even whiter than it actually is, and gives it a slightly ethereal quality. Have you seen a stone with fluorescence in real life in several lighting conditions? Don't knock it til you do. You might not even notice it in the first place.

Add to that, that the big houses usually 'ding' the price of the stone, giving you a price break on it. Wins all around. I personally seek out stones with Medium Blue Fluorescence, and my current is actually Medium or Strong depending which lab report you favor--I have had my stone regraded by multiple labs for sh@ts and grins.
 
#4
Thank you so much both for your responses and the information! I will send them the proportions on the link and see what they come back with. Yeah I see exactly what you mean on the fluorescence, and I actually had that same thought on it making the stone look whiter myself - since I use purple shampoo on my blonde hair to lighten it up and neutralise yellow. - But it's that thing of it being labelled as a 'flaw' that gets you!!

It's crazy how little about this stuff the SAs seem to know both at Tiffany's and other jewellers I've been to though, they just look at you funny when you ask. Hopefully more shoppers will get clued up and then in turn they will start training their SAs better. - Ame, you should definitely be a ring finder though, if you aren't already!! :smile1:
 
#5
Definitely go with Ame's cheat sheet, it's a super helpful guide and you'll never go wrong with that. The challenge is Tiffany's limited inventory. It's soooo hard to find one that can match all those numbers. I'll suggest that you prioritise and see which areas that you can open up the range a bit, so that Tiffany's merchandiser comes back with more options (I hate it that they just give you one and expect you to take it or leave it. With this kinda price, I'd like to have a few to choose from!)

If it's me, I'll open up the carat range, e.g: 0.90-1.10carat, colours from F-I (I used to be obsessed with D-F coloured diamonds, but I've seen some G-I Tiffany diamonds with good cut that looks very white, I can't tell the difference much), and clarity of VS1-VS2.

Let us know what they come back with. Hope you'll find the perfect diamond soon. 😉
 
#6
alicegarden said:
Thank you so much both for your responses and the information! I will send them the proportions on the link and see what they come back with. Yeah I see exactly what you mean on the fluorescence, and I actually had that same thought on it making the stone look whiter myself - since I use purple shampoo on my blonde hair to lighten it up and neutralise yellow. - But it's that thing of it being labelled as a 'flaw' that gets you!!

It's crazy how little about this stuff the SAs seem to know both at Tiffany's and other jewellers I've been to though, they just look at you funny when you ask. Hopefully more shoppers will get clued up and then in turn they will start training their SAs better. - Ame, you should definitely be a ring finder though, if you aren't already!! :smile1:
Click to expand...

They are not jewelers, they are salespeople and very few have any sort of legitimate gemological training. They get training from Tiffany, and Tiffany is a retailer, not a gemological lab. Some of the salespeople will take it upon themselves to go through GIA schooling though, and that will help them, however, Tiffany wants them to sell a specific way, basically to play on that emotional connection of THIS item in the case, whether it's the best option for you or not.

I don't consider fluorescence a flaw at all. It is a naturally occurring trait, so it really shouldn't be considered a negative.

I would definitely consider more of a color range and more of a clarity range. Allow for a G or even an H in your range, they will not be "yellow" and if well cut you won't see warmth unless you really look from the side. And clarity--allow for a VS1 at least. Again you won't see ANYTHING. It's worth considering for the budget at least. Why pay for what you cannot see.

I am absolutely glad to help out. If you want to post individual specs here that is fine, or PM them to me.
 
#10
I can't help you with the cut but I just want to say that if you want the Tiffany setting, go for it. I love mine and I know people will tell you to go with the replica setting and get the stone somewhere else for a lot cheaper. The Tiffany setting is the real deal and all the replicas are not the same. I have had mine for many years and I still love my ring. It is worth every penny. I also want to add that Tiffany's customer service has even great. I can get my ring cleaned and checked at every Tiffany boutique around the world as I travel a lot. I get it polished for free every few years as well.
 
#11
Fluorescence is considered a flaw because it can make diamonds look inky under certain lights and milky under others.
I have a Tiffany Soleste, and I have compared my stone to many, many other non-Tiffany rings and none compares in scintillation and brilliance and that's not even coming from me.
There is something special about a Tiffany's diamond and Ring and many Ex-Employees still go back to Tiffany's to buy their diamonds, and so do I, even though I can get them cheaper elsewhere as I am from the jewellery trade.
My 5 cents, good luck !
 
#12
Hi, thanks all for the replies, it really is so helpful!

So, I have now been sent a few more options by the SA at Tiffany's

She was like 'no one ever asks this stuff, are you a scientist?' :giggles:


1) 0.96 G VS2
TIFFANY GEMOLOGICAL LABORATORY REPORT
SHAPE Round
CUT Brilliant
MEASUREMENTS 6.33 - 6.36 x 3.91 mm
(minimum girdle diameter - maximum girdle diameter x depth in mm)
CARAT WEIGHT 0.960 carat
COLOR GRADE G
FLUORESCENCE None
PRESENCE
PRECISION OF CUT Excellent
SYMMETRY Excellent
POLISH Excellent
CLARITY GRADE VS2
ENHANCEMENTS None
(Besides Cut/Polishing)
CUT PROPORTIONS
TOTAL DEPTH PERCENTAGE 61.6%
TABLE SIZE PERCENTAGE 57%
CROWN HEIGHT PERCENTAGE 15.3%
CROWN ANGLE 34.9°
PAVILION DEPTH PERCENTAGE 43.0%
PAVILION ANGLE 40.8°
GIRDLE THICKNESS Medium
GIRDLE FINISH Faceted
CULET None
LOWER HALF LENGTH PERCENTAGE 75%
STAR LENGTH PERCENTAGE 55%

2) 0.98 F VS1
TIFFANY GEMOLOGICAL REPORT
3) SHAPE Round
4) CUT Brilliant
5) MEASUREMENTS 6.45 - 6.47 x 3.90 mm
6) (minimum girdle diameter - maximum girdle diameter x depth in mm)
7) CARAT WEIGHT 0.980 carat
8) COLOR GRADE F
9) FLUORESCENCE None
10) PRESENCE
11) PRECISION OF CUT Excellent
12) SYMMETRY Excellent
13) POLISH Very Good
14) CLARITY GRADE VS1
15) ENHANCEMENTS None
16) (Besides Cut/Polishing)
17) CUT PROPORTIONS
18) TOTAL DEPTH PERCENTAGE 60.4%
19) TABLE SIZE PERCENTAGE 57%
20) CROWN HEIGHT PERCENTAGE 14.4%
21) CROWN ANGLE 34.0°
22) PAVILION DEPTH PERCENTAGE 43.3%
23) PAVILION ANGLE 41.0°
24) GIRDLE THICKNESS Thin To Medium
25) GIRDLE FINISH Faceted
26) CULET None
27) LOWER HALF LENGTH PERCENTAGE 75%
28) STAR LENGTH PERCENTAGE 55%

3) 0.94 F VS1
TIFFANY GEMOLOGICAL LABORATORY REPORT
SHAPE Round
CUT Brilliant
MEASUREMENTS 6.26 - 6.29 x 3.86 mm
(minimum girdle diameter - maximum girdle diameter x depth in mm)
CARAT WEIGHT 0.940 carat
COLOR GRADE F
FLUORESCENCE None
PRESENCE
PRECISION OF CUT Excellent
SYMMETRY Excellent
POLISH Excellent
CLARITY GRADE VS1
ENHANCEMENTS None
(Besides Cut/Polishing)
CUT PROPORTIONS
TOTAL DEPTH PERCENTAGE 61.5%
TABLE SIZE PERCENTAGE 58%
CROWN HEIGHT PERCENTAGE 14.3%
CROWN ANGLE 34.1°
PAVILION DEPTH PERCENTAGE 43.3%
PAVILION ANGLE 41.0°
GIRDLE THICKNESS Medium To Slightly Thick
GIRDLE FINISH Faceted
CULET None
LOWER HALF LENGTH PERCENTAGE 79%
STAR LENGTH PERCENTAGE 54%



So, from this I am thinking option 2, the 0.98 sounds pretty good?? I put it into HCA and got a score of 1.3, which is a much better rating than any of the other stones I have seen from Tiffany so far.

I know (now :smile1:) that the 'triple excellent' thing is a marketing gimmick as Ame has said, but should I be bothered by the only 'very good' on the polish - just confused about this as it seems to score so well otherwise?

Also, I was hoping someone might be able to tell me; everyone says to view the stone before purchasing to make sure I like the look of it, but what exactly should I be looking for when I do this? In Tiffany stores I have found it hard to tell if one stone is better than another because of the lighting they use?

Thanks!
 
#13
Eliminate #3. But #1 and #2 look like they could be winners. The reason the 2nd looks larger in diameter is because it's shallower. See it in person before you buy it just on numbers.

Your eyes won't be able to detect the difference between an EXCELLENT or a VERY GOOD on the polish. That isn't something worth the hang up on if it's cut well.

Does the store have access to natural light? Like a bank of windows or anything? If so go near the windows and look at the stone there in sunlight and natural lighting if possible. You want the range of lighting conditions. Just note that even the best cut stone will not perform perfectly in every lighting condition. It just won't. Sometimes well cut stones "go dark" in direct light. It's the way your eye handles the light return.
 
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