I watched a Swedish series and the story was related to Sami people. I never knew this until I watched it. And they firmly believed that they were shafted in Sweden. It was a really sad story.
The Atlantic: Fashion’s Racism and Classism Are Finally Out of Style
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TBH I don't think either of you are technically wrong but you're not meeting in the pretty sensible middle ground which is a nation is sometimes considered an identifier for race and sometimes it isn't. The US is one obvious example where it doesn't.
I don't think either you or this person had bad intentions (of course can't know for sure) but I'm struck by seeing these types of arguments happening all the time on social media. It's like battle of the semantics among two well-meaning, educated people who at the end of the day both treat others with respect. And then somehow we end up on the opposite sides of the cause instead of both advancing it together. I'm not picking on you, it's just a thought I've had a lot lately. I've had similar arguments with people myself.
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Refreshing post and spot on. I went watched CRA and laughed mostly because I have more than enough awareness of who's who in Asia. I thought it aligned to some of the american movies I've seen laden with sterotypes and actors/actresses chosen that are easy to accept. TBH, I was surprised it was produced given what I thought was a great awareness of avoiding sterotypes. I think most people would conclude as I did "Ok so this is suppose to be the Chinese equivalent of the Cali rich, Rodeo Drive, Calabasas etc."
I truly do believe the Slavery of Africans was horrific. However, what happened to Native Americans was also horrific, they've never recovered. Yes, reservations are a part of my heritage. I'm a product of enough of the horrific happening in America but thankfully, I was raised to see there is a general problem in humanity of subjugating other humans. What happened in Nazi Germany.....that too is horrific. I'm not going to detail those horrors as I've never forgotten the documentaries I watched. One more thing I'll say regarding the tactics used against the slaves brought there; they are the tactics that have been used by the military for 1000s of years...separating families, breaks a society. Taking away male children, impacts procreation.
Anytime a humans are treated poorly for any reason it's bad....I just can't slice and dice it. IMHO, it's a global issue that has transpired across the span of human existence.
I agree, equally horrific and even less well known I have the impression. The holocaust as well. They are all comparable and it is no point ascertaining whether one is worse than the other. They all have in common that they were made possible by culture systems that managed to institutionally dehumanize the victims thus suppressing empathy towards them.
Still, I think those were peak levels of cruelty and inhuman behavior that are not the same than the treatment dispensed to late emigrants in the US where extermination or ownership were never the goal. That was the usual ”you are different and weaker so I am going to reinforce my power position by treating you badly” (as opposed to: we don’t even share a human condition so as a society, I make it the law to do with you whatever I want). Two things being bad doesn’t make them the same. Putting all bads in the same basket risks diluting the impact of certain types of horror, or the far reaching consequences of specific actions. I think this is at the heart of how the Germans have been successful (all things considered) in dealing with the holocaust.
I like how you put this. I agree and it's so hard to explain this to people why it can be so offensive to say "Slavery is horrific. But other people suffered terrible things too." Those 2 statements are true, but that "but ___ too" is what makes it a little offensive as a response to a discussion about one group's struggle. Each group, tragedy, illness, or any negative traumatic event deserves to be discussed or honored in its own spotlight. It's also just a matter of respect when you're talking to a person who has suffered directly. If your loved one came down with terminal lung cancer, you wouldn't say to them, "but other people get cancer all the time too... it's not just you" or "worst things have happened to other people." It's just insensitive. Everyone has likely suffered their fair share of tragedies and heartbreaks, but it shouldn't prevent us from still sympathizing with someone else's without any type of comparison.
Btw I'm not directing that at anyone here... I haven't been following enough to know if someone has or hasn't done this in this thread so pls don't take offense either way!
Thank you for your opinion. I agree that nations are sometimes an identifier for race and sometimes not. Its the absolute rejection that it can that I disagreed with. And the idea that all east Asians are one race that probably comes from a western centric view of the world. And the ad hominems.
You've been nothing but respectful in your reply and your different reading of the exchange is accepted in good spirit
I agree that lighter skin was a preference for a long time because it indicated you didn’t have to work under the sun to earn your food. Fair hands could be more important than a fair face. The more aristocratic (i.e. the less you had to do) the lighter the skin. So it was more about class (and the divide between urban and rural) than about race.
When fair skin started to mean you could not afford a holiday, tanned became the thing, at least in the West.
I was reading this old magazine the other day, from the mid 1920s, and it had this narrative about two women meeting in the city after the Summer season, with the one having been in Biarritz exhibiting a tan and reporting that being as dark as possible was now the à la mode thing in France’s vacation hot spots, and the other one, having vacationed somewhere less fashionable, worrying that the fair skin she had spent the Summer protecting with hats and parasols was now going to showcase how outdated she was. So I guess that it was around this time that the change happened.
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Yes! I have personally experienced extreme version of this IRL and most of the time I laugh it off but it gets tiresome when they don't even bother to distinguish your face from another Asia face...Thank you for your opinion. I agree that nations are sometimes an identifier for race and sometimes not. Its the absolute rejection that it can that I disagreed with. And the idea that all east Asians are one race that probably comes from a western centric view of the world. And the ad hominems.
You've been nothing but respectful in your reply and your different reading of the exchange is accepted in good spirit
I agree and I think it is also related to genetics. China has been conquered by Northerners for the past few hundred years, and Northerners generally have lighter skin, taller built, straight black hair, thinner lips. Hence, it became the beauty standard.
I think it’s also because Royalties and those in the upper most crust are educated in the West.
I admire both of you for your restraint. Truly, I do.Thank you for your opinion. I agree that nations are sometimes an identifier for race and sometimes not. Its the absolute rejection that it can that I disagreed with. And the idea that all east Asians are one race that probably comes from a western centric view of the world. And the ad hominems.
You've been nothing but respectful in your reply and your different reading of the exchange is accepted in good spirit
I hold a different view as the original comment had xenophobic and classist undertones, not to mention the condescending and patronising way with which they tried to counter your comments, trying to 'educate' you while calling you 'young and uneducated', as if somehow having 'a Masters degree in cultural anthropology' automatically makes their POV more legitimate than one's lived experiences regarding race. Semantics aside, prejudice is still prejudice. One can criticise the Chinese communist state (I do, often) and its disregard for the environmental impact of their manufacturing industry without having to dump all over the Chinese factory worker who doesn't have a say in any of the economic decision making. The common Chinese factory worker doesn't have any rights at all. And let's not forget who shifted manufacturing to China when it opened up to the world on the back of cheap and exploitative labour so that we could buy goods at ridiculously low prices. People can't turn their nose up at China or any other developing country and wash their hands of the role the West has played in all of this. This is exactly the kind of thing the Atlantic article is referring to about the intersection of class and race in a globalised society.
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Agree with this and am glad you could brush it off with grace. We can disagree politely and tactfully. JMO, of course.
Trust me, my initial response was much more heated and I had to rewrite several drafts before erasing the entire thing and starting over. If there's one thing I cannot bear it's someone talking and punching down to someone else.Agree with this and am glad you could brush it off with grace. We can disagree politely and tactfully. JMO, of course.