The Atlantic: Fashion’s Racism and Classism Are Finally Out of Style

[tuowei]

I admire both of you for your restraint. Truly, I do.

I hold a different view as the original comment had xenophobic and classist undertones, not to mention the condescending and patronising way with which they tried to counter your comments, trying to 'educate' you while calling you 'young and uneducated', as if somehow having 'a Masters degree in cultural anthropology' automatically makes their POV more legitimate than one's lived experiences regarding race. Semantics aside, prejudice is still prejudice. One can criticise the Chinese communist state (I do, often) and its disregard for the environmental impact of their manufacturing industry without having to dump all over the Chinese factory worker who doesn't have a say in any of the economic decision making. The common Chinese factory worker doesn't have any rights at all. And let's not forget who shifted manufacturing to China when it opened up to the world on the back of cheap and exploitative labour so that we could buy goods at ridiculously low prices. People can't turn their nose up at China or any other developing country and wash their hands of the role the West has played in all of this. This is exactly the kind of thing the Atlantic article is referring to about the intersection of class and race in a globalised society.

Thank you. When I first read the replies I was unpleasantly taken aback by all the bits telling me to "take some graduate courses in social psychology or cultural anthropology". Asking if I "had ever had a job (or) filled out a school application". Saying I must be "very young (and telling me) to educate myself so as not to reveal my ignorance." None of that was necessary and actually obscures their point that racism is so often based on appearance and ignorant of nationality, which I actually agree with.
At the risk of being controversial, some social scientists have a tendency to confuse their field with the "hard sciences" and believe their conclusions are as irrefutable and reproducible as the laws of physics and chemistry. Just because well-cited anthropologists divided humans into 4 boxes it doesn't make it The Truth. Social constructs like race and class are obviously real but there is no one correct answer to the complex questions human create that decides who is right or wrong.

Cultural appropriation is another social construct that makes me head hurt. Taking something another culture created without credit to make a profit is ugly, especially if it is from a disadvantaged culture with no opportunities to exploit their own cultural legacy. But how do you compensate a culture? I also believe in the free exchange of ideas - art and literature is full of wonderful works inspired by other works. To bring it back to a superficial level - I really want a Gucci Dragon Ophelia

 

[GhstDreamer]

True, they were forced on the various boats....and across Europe, classism created issues for other 'white' people hence the move to this continent now called North America. What about the The Chinese Exclusion Act and what that did to the Chinese men working on the railroads? Also the indigenous people of South America and Philippines names were taken away and replaced with European names from Spain and Portugal.

The Chinese was the only ethnic group to be victim of an exclusion act by both the Canadian and the American governments. That's why some don't celebrate Canada Day (July 1st) - it was the day that act was passed. The reason why the Chinese and the Indigenous men carried out the most dangerous work on the railroad was because as property, their lives were worth 3x less than a white or a black worker in the late 1800's. The worst mass lynching to occur in the US was in the late 1800's. It was in California during a race riot and around 20 Chinese were lynched and others were left mutilated and disfigured. That's why when I was in the states on a trip one time, and a group of guys told us to get out of the car so they can hang us that hits home. Then there was the Rock Springs massacre in which almost all Chinese owned homes were burned and the residents were killed. The chinatowns and chinese communities in the US and Canada in the early 1900's to mid 1900's were areas police refused to go even when they were needed and sadly, ambulances also refused to go into their communities. In Canada, the Chinese weren't allowed to even become citizens until the mid 1950's - I believe the last ethnic group that was barred from citizenship. Much of these atrocities and injustices are not taught in history classes at least not in depth as if they never existed, especially since as an ethnic group, the Chinese became the so called, "model minority". However, covid and anti-China government sentiments in the west particularly in the US has once again sparked a lot of racial hatred, especially with leaders who fan the flames of racist rhetoric. Reminds me of the line and also title of the song (if anyone remembers), "objects in the rear view mirror are closer than they appear." Present racism against Asians in particular to the Chinese is merely a leftover of past American and Canadian racist ideological legacies. They rear it's ugly head whenever nations are under some kind of catastrophe whether it be war, pandemic, stock market crashes, etc. which is not isolated to Canada or the US. Ethnic and religious minorities are almost always scapegoats during times of hardship no matter what country.

 

[maryg1]

The Irish were absolutely derided in England until very recently. Even in the 1970s (or especially in the 1970s) they were never allowed to forget they were Irish.

I remember there were different lines at the airport for check in for Irish people, and that wasn’t a long time ago

 

[Luv2Scoop]

The Chinese was the only ethnic group to be victim of an exclusion act by both the Canadian and the American governments. That's why some don't celebrate Canada Day (July 1st) - it was the day that act was passed. The reason why the Chinese and the Indigenous men carried out the most dangerous work on the railroad was because as property, their lives were worth 3x less than a white or a black worker in the late 1800's. The worst mass lynching to occur in the US was in the late 1800's. It was in California during a race riot and around 20 Chinese were lynched and others were left mutilated and disfigured. That's why when I was in the states on a trip one time, and a group of guys told us to get out of the car so they can hang us that hits home. Then there was the Rock Springs massacre in which almost all Chinese owned homes were burned and the residents were killed. The chinatowns and chinese communities in the US and Canada in the early 1900's to mid 1900's were areas police refused to go even when they were needed and sadly, ambulances also refused to go into their communities. In Canada, the Chinese weren't allowed to even become citizens until the mid 1950's - I believe the last ethnic group that was barred from citizenship. Much of these atrocities and injustices are not taught in history classes at least not in depth as if they never existed, especially since as an ethnic group, the Chinese became the so called, "model minority". However, covid and anti-China government sentiments in the west particularly in the US has once again sparked a lot of racial hatred, especially with leaders who fan the flames of racist rhetoric. Reminds me of the line and also title of the song (if anyone remembers), "objects in the rear view mirror are closer than they appear." Present racism against Asians in particular to the Chinese is merely a leftover of past American and Canadian racist ideological legacies. They rear it's ugly head whenever nations are under some kind of catastrophe whether it be war, pandemic, stock market crashes, etc. which is not isolated to Canada or the US. Ethnic and religious minorities are almost always scapegoats during times of hardship no matter what country.

Thanks for expanding on the Exclusion Act since no enough people in the states are aware. I try to be fair and remind myself that we are products of our environment, me, I been raised in a multi-cultural (many races and ethnicities) environment. I can usually tell the different between Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Filipino. While aware, I am not always savvy enough to tell the different between East Indianans and Fijian East Indian. Sure, I know when someone is Sikh because of the turban and in some cases I can different based on dominant ethnic features. What is my point? While ignorance or lack of exposure can cause us to make mistakes about others, it isn't that hard to sit, listen and learn. People are like flowers (I decided not to use any animals given the sensitivity of the subject). The rose family has 91 sub families and over 4000 species. If people take the time to differentiate between the different types of rose petals, we can take the time to differentiate features of people. At the moment it is tough for Asians to travel across the global, I'm glad this website has been created to raise awareness.

AAPI Equity Alliance Website – Website for the Asian American Pacific Islander Equity Alliance

www.asianpacificpolicyandplanningcouncil.org

 

[lalame]

I admire both of you for your restraint. Truly, I do.

I hold a different view as the original comment had xenophobic and classist undertones, not to mention the condescending and patronising way with which they tried to counter your comments, trying to 'educate' you while calling you 'young and uneducated', as if somehow having 'a Masters degree in cultural anthropology' automatically makes their POV more legitimate than one's lived experiences regarding race. Semantics aside, prejudice is still prejudice. One can criticise the Chinese communist state (I do, often) and its disregard for the environmental impact of their manufacturing industry without having to dump all over the Chinese factory worker who doesn't have a say in any of the economic decision making. The common Chinese factory worker doesn't have any rights at all. And let's not forget who shifted manufacturing to China when it opened up to the world on the back of cheap and exploitative labour so that we could buy goods at ridiculously low prices. People can't turn their nose up at China or any other developing country and wash their hands of the role the West has played in all of this. This is exactly the kind of thing the Atlantic article is referring to about the intersection of class and race in a globalised society.

You're not wrong and I should say I did step over the behavior in that person's messages and focused on the point they were trying to make instead. Hope no one took that to mean I think it's ok to treat people condescendingly, it's just these days... it becomes second nature to ignore bad attitudes on social media (because there's so much of it) and try to focus on what they're trying to say instead.

 

[lalame]

Thank you. When I first read the replies I was unpleasantly taken aback by all the bits telling me to "take some graduate courses in social psychology or cultural anthropology". Asking if I "had ever had a job (or) filled out a school application". Saying I must be "very young (and telling me) to educate myself so as not to reveal my ignorance." None of that was necessary and actually obscures their point that racism is so often based on appearance and ignorant of nationality, which I actually agree with.
At the risk of being controversial, some social scientists have a tendency to confuse their field with the "hard sciences" and believe their conclusions are as irrefutable and reproducible as the laws of physics and chemistry. Just because well-cited anthropologists divided humans into 4 boxes it doesn't make it The Truth. Social constructs like race and class are obviously real but there is no one correct answer to the complex questions human create that decides who is right or wrong.

Cultural appropriation is another social construct that makes me head hurt. Taking something another culture created without credit to make a profit is ugly, especially if it is from a disadvantaged culture with no opportunities to exploit their own cultural legacy. But how do you compensate a culture? I also believe in the free exchange of ideas - art and literature is full of wonderful works inspired by other works. To bring it back to a superficial level - I really want a Gucci Dragon Ophelia

This reminded me of this video... (to be fair I don't think this is really a "white" thing but it's become a convenient term)

 

[OneMoreDay]

Thank you. When I first read the replies I was unpleasantly taken aback by all the bits telling me to "take some graduate courses in social psychology or cultural anthropology". Asking if I "had ever had a job (or) filled out a school application". Saying I must be "very young (and telling me) to educate myself so as not to reveal my ignorance." None of that was necessary and actually obscures their point that racism is so often based on appearance and ignorant of nationality, which I actually agree with.
At the risk of being controversial, some social scientists have a tendency to confuse their field with the "hard sciences" and believe their conclusions are as irrefutable and reproducible as the laws of physics and chemistry. Just because well-cited anthropologists divided humans into 4 boxes it doesn't make it The Truth. Social constructs like race and class are obviously real but there is no one correct answer to the complex questions human create that decides who is right or wrong.

I don't think that's controversial. People need to be able to back up their arguments with cold facts but we need understand that issues like race are real, lived experiences. Academia alone cannot define for us who we are, only how we're seen. And that's the rub. Too often, minorities are not seen at all, or we're viewed through a Western-centric lens which distort our experiences in order to fit the narratives of others. Cold hard facts and classifications don't speak to generational trauma, of cycles of poverty, of struggles of diasporas, the continuing effects of colonialism, and so on. Yes, scientists need to remain objective. But if the object of your study is not any mere object, but living breathing human beings, you need to make room for them and their stories and not talk over them.

 

[chicinthecity777]

I remember there were different lines at the airport for check in for Irish people, and that wasn’t a long time ago

Steady... that's not racist or discrimination. That's because the Irish government and U.K. government have special immigration treaty. There is one just signed due to Brexit also as in the Irish do get special terms due to the historic tie between the two countries.

 

[papertiger]

Steady... that's not racist or discrimination. That's because the Irish government and U.K. government have special immigration treaty. There is one just signed due to Brexit also as in the Irish do get special terms due to the historic tie between the two countries.

I don't think they need passports just ID (it's the same when we go there) but they don't get their own queue now.

 

[keodi]

I don't take offense at all. The term African American was originally to describe the descendants of slaves or ADOS, which used to be called black Americans, and before that, Negroes. And most ADOS are not pure African. Because most of our slave ancestors were victims of rape, it's a given that we also have the DNA of the slave masters as well. That's just a given.
I refer to myself as a black woman, but "black American" includes more than just ADOS. And more and more black Americans who are descendants of slaves are calling themselves ADOS as opposed to African American or black. It's a proud history, and I'm proud that my ancestors were able to survive the journey to America on a slave ship, survive years of enslavement and not only contribute to America but help build it, despite the lack of recognition they've received through the generations.
If your genetic background isn't important to you then that's your personal choice. I actually find it quite interesting to look at a person and find out what their ethnic makeup is. It's something to embrace and to celebrate. And I just think it's pretty darn cool. It's only hate that has made it taboo.

Agreed!

 

[doni]

In Italy we also have great minds that fit great in the modern world.

Oh most definitely! I didn’t mean it like you don’t, sorry. I ADORE Italy and lived there for a few years, so I may have appropriated the right to be dismissive the way one can be of the things and people one truly loves. I could have said the same about Spanish men.

 

[OneMoreDay]

Cultural appropriation is another social construct that makes me head hurt. Taking something another culture created without credit to make a profit is ugly, especially if it is from a disadvantaged culture with no opportunities to exploit their own cultural legacy. But how do you compensate a culture? I also believe in the free exchange of ideas - art and literature is full of wonderful works inspired by other works. To bring it back to a superficial level - I really want a Gucci Dragon Ophelia

I think this may be of some interest to you. I found this on Tumblr and it really spoke to me. It's angry at some points, but I think it just speaks to how tiring it is to have legitimate grievances be hijacked in order to fight a righteous 'cause' that's warped its original meaning. A lot of the things that frustrate me about mainstream racial discourse comes from well-intentioned "allies" but comes across as really ignorant and merely performative. Allies are always appreciated, I'm sure. But when a cause itself becomes appropriated, that's when it becomes problematic. Note: Emphasis my own.

afronerdism
May 14th 2019, 4:18:12 am · a year ago
The conversation surrounding cultural appropriation has been so severely mutilated by white “allies” that the original intention behind that conversation has become almost unrecognizable in most social contexts.

afronerdism
To explain what I mean, the conversation around cultural appropriation was started by black and native people to discuss the frustrations we feel at being punished socially and financially for partaking in our cultural heritage while white people could take, I.e. appropriate, aspects of our culture that we are actively shamed for and be heralded as innovators. It was about the frustrations we feel when the same white people who shamed us would take our culture and wear it as if they were the ones who created it while still actively shaming us for doing the same.

The original push behind naming cultural appropriation and having these conversations were so that we as a society could evaluate why we were punished for our heritage while white People were not. It was supposed to be about seeking solutions. The idea was to create a society where we could celebrate our cultures with impunity. It was never about telling white people that they “weren’t allowed” to do certain things. We did ask that white People stop doing certain things because they weren’t doing them respectfully and were not invited to do them, but the primary reason we asked them to desist was to reclaim the things they had stolen and to reassign them culturally back where they belonged.

White “allies” saw these conversations happening and instead of trying to amplify our own voices or even try to learn about the complexities behind why we were saying what we were saying, they instead began screaming over us and creating a narrative that was hardly even the bones of what we originally set out to say. It was like they took the conversation we were trying to have, completely decontextualized it, and stripped it of all it’s nuance in order to gain social currency by seeming progressive.

So the conversation around cultural appropriation went from “This aspect of our heritage belongs to us and we find it egregious that we are shamed for it. What steps can we take to address the racism that’s creating this situation as well as rehome the things that have been stolen” to “you’re not allowed to do that because if you do that you’re racist, we don’t really understand why that’s racist but you’re not allowed to do that and if you do that you’re a klansman no exceptions. So you’re not allowed because because”
At the end of the day, did I like the fact that sally was wearing dreads? No. But my primary concern was not that sally was wearing dreads but rather that sally could wear dreads and I couldn’t. THAT was the intended focus of those conversations. It was about addressing the inequality. It was about us. Now the conversation is just about sally and we're completely forgotten.

White People are always asking me what they can do to help. You want to know? Stop talking. Amplify our voices and shut the f*ck up because you all have pretty much derailed this conversation and many more like it to the point that we no longer are trying to make steps to understand and dismantle the racism around cultural appropriation and instead are just using it as social shaming tactics.

 

[tuowei]

I think this may be of some interest to you. I found this on Tumblr and it really spoke to me. It's angry at some points, but I think it just speaks to how tiring it is to have legitimate grievances be hijacked in order to fight a righteous 'cause' that's warped its original meaning. A lot of the things that frustrate me about mainstream racial discourse comes from well-intentioned "allies" but comes across as really ignorant and merely performative. Allies are always appreciated, I'm sure. But when a cause itself becomes appropriated, that's when it becomes problematic. Note: Emphasis my own.

afronerdism
May 14th 2019, 4:18:12 am · a year ago
The conversation surrounding cultural appropriation has been so severely mutilated by white “allies” that the original intention behind that conversation has become almost unrecognizable in most social contexts.
n
afronerdism
The original push behind naming cultural appropriation and having these conversations were so that we as a society could evaluate why we were punished for our heritage while white People were not. It was supposed to be about seeking solutions. The idea was to create a society where we could celebrate our cultures with impunity. It was never about telling white people that they “weren’t allowed” to do certain things. We did ask that white People stop doing certain things because they weren’t doing them respectfully and were not invited to do them, but the primary reason we asked them to desist was to reclaim the things they had stolen and to reassign them culturally back where they belonged.

Thanks, that is interesting. I can understand the frustration - media citations of cultural appropriation that immediately come to mind are white people wearing native american headdresses and the Dior Savage Johnny Depp ads. I agree that the aspect where the original culture is judged harshly for something that the appropriating people are celebrated for can get lost in the mix. The Guardian recently had an article about Kpop and Black culture that speaks to this I think.

Unfortunately I've come to realize that once you put an idea out, it ceases to be within your control. Honestly, I don't know which is better: the idea catching fire the and mutating beyond your original intent or the idea sinking like a stone. Such distortions can come from your own camp, well-meaning allies or deliberate twisting to extremes to set up straw men by antagonists. I am wary of ideas that go from "think about what your doing" to "it's wrong to do this" ... as happens all too often.

 

[lovemyrescues]

I agree! I think Telfar is doing a fantastic job in changing the fashion industry. He has such a cool and unique approach to casual streetwear. Plus, his vegan bags are a major hit, they're always sold out! I've been trying to get one for months now and I always miss them.

You can preorder a Telfar bag on 8/19 for 24 hours. They just announced it. Info on site: https://shop.telfar.net/

 

[Yoshi1296]

You can preorder a Telfar bag on 8/19 for 24 hours. They just announced it. Info on site: https://shop.telfar.net/

yes I just saw!! ahhh so excited hehe