Small Grains vs Large Grains; Togo vs Clemence

  1. OK, this is not a trick question.

    There have been repeat questions asking about the difference of Togo and Clemence. This is NOT my question.

    My question is, how does a large grained Togo compare with a small grained Togo? Which is better?

    And would a large grained Togo slouch more than a small grained Clemence?
  2. Mrs S. I have 2 Togo bags both are 30cm - and I know that this size isn't as prone to slouchiness as the larger models. However, I have one from 2005 which is large grained with veins and one from 2007 which has a much smaller grain. Out of the 2 I prefer the larger grained leather - it feels slightly richer the other drier or thinner?? The larger one doesn't appear to be more slouchy than the smaller grained model. If anything, I think the smaller might slouch more - but to be honest they don't slouch very much at all and are both very rigid and upright - like I like 'em!

    I'm keen to hear back from Clemence and Togo owners about this too!
  3. ^^ Thank you, Grill.

    I have a 30cm Gold Togo and it has very small grains. That's actually the size of the grains I have been used to. In fact the sighting of 2 brand new Togo Kellys recently, also affirmed the sizes of Togo grains that usually come in.

    But I do know that large grained Togos exist, and it can often be mistaken for Clemence, for the untrained eyes.

    So, that's what begs the questions. I am happy to hear from your experience that large grained Togo hasn't slouched more than the smaller one.

    Anyone else has experience with large grained Togo?
  4. MsS

    My rouge garance togo 30 cm birkin is rather unusual in that the grains in the centre of the bag are smaller but gradually increase in size towards the sides... but the effect is symmetrical as I believe the craftsman has chosen the leather that way. Compared to my BJ birkin 30 cm which has the finer grains, I find that the larger grain togo is stiffer and holds its shape better whereas the BJ is starting to slouch. The smell is also somewhat different (not sure if the differentdye affects the scent or not).
  5. archangel (so good to 'see' you back!), so good to know.

    That makes 2 people saying that larger grained Togo is stiffer. Which is fine.

    The smaller grains are so pretty though :tender:.
  6. MsS

    I have to say also that the thickness/heaviness factor of the leathers have changed also over the years. Fjord used to be one of the heavier leathers around - a 35 cm fjord bag used to be very heavy. But of late, I have handled a K fjord 35cm birkin which was noticeably lighter (even the SA commented about that). Not sure if the cows were feed on a better diet previously and hence the leather quality was thicker and denser... whereas the cows now have to content with all the environment pollution etc... ha ha
  7. Thank you for raising this issue, Mrs.S!! I've always been confused as to how to spot the difference between larger grained Togo and smaller grained Clemence (or Clemence that doesn't slouch as much). My black 35 Birkin, for example, evein the SAs can't agree on what leather it is. Some thinks it's Togo, some thinks it's Clemence. The grains on my black one is larger than my smaller-grained Togo, and not as raised... but it doesn't slouch like my BB clemence Birkin. There's also another time when an SA said it must be Togo because Clemence is always slouchy?? :confused1::confused1: Very confusing...
  8. I wonder if its the year of production that makes the difference rather than the grain size? I must say - if I had to choose - I'd say I prefered the feel of the older (2005) Togo compared to that of my Blue Jean which is 2007.
  9. Here you go.. a comparison picture... larger grain togo (rouge garance) vs smaller grain BJ (starting to slouch)

  10. archangel, gorgeous!!

    Is the larger grained togo any softer than the smaller grain?

    Whitebirkin, clemence, to my hand is so much softer than togo....but, then, I've not handled all the togo pieces in the world either! Clemence, to me, seems to have a more matte finish tho....togo has a kind of sheen you don't see on clemence.

    My small grain clemence Kelly is keeping her figure....but, then, she's a 28 and that makes a difference. My large grain clemence Bolide 31 slouches oh so nicely. But, then, she is a mou style and is supposed to....uh.....sag.
  11. Wow!! Thanks for posting this pic, arcangel!! Your bags are gorgeous!
  12. mrssparkles, thanks for starting this thread. I had no idea that the grain had any impact on stiffness.

    archangel, great photo (of course, wonderful bags!)
  13. The larger grain togo is definitely thicker, harder and heavier...(sorry if it sounds somewhat suggestive)
  14. I love this thread! Thank you for posting it MrsS!
  15. ITA with archangel and Grill. I have a G stamp black Togo and there is no mistaking it for Clemence. The grain is indeed larger, more stiff and much more pronounced and raised than Clemence; it is a very hearty grain....almost plastic-like. I also find it stiffer than my J stamped Togos which have a finer, more even look to it. Aesthetically I find the newer Togo very pretty, but think the older Togo is heartier.

    Archangel's observation about the current productions of Fjord are also spot on. My H stamp is a lot more thick and hearty than my K stamp which is so much more thin that from far away it could be mistaken for Clemence.