Seller dragging heels in return, eBay appears to have their back

  1. Leave it to eBay to push me out of several years of lurkdom. I am being screwed on my INAD case with eBay and would love any advice anyone has to offer.

    I apologize for the length of this post; I will be as concise as possible but there has been much back and forth with no resolution.

    Oct 11: I receive a Celine bag that has an obvious dent on the back and two on the front. At a certain lighting and angle, they can be avoided in photos but are obvious IRL. It doesn't appear to be damage per se, just natural graining of the leather. In any case, it was not mentioned or photographed in the listing. I email the seller to ask if they'd be willing to give a partial refund and if not, I'd like to return (seller has no returns clause).

    Oct 12 - 21: Repeated emails and no response. I let the seller know that if I don't hear from them about my question by Oct 22, I will be opening a case with eBay. Seller responds at 10pm on Oct 21 but avoids my questions...gives a non-answer of "oh, the dents weren't there when I sent it, must have gotten damaged in the mail! Sorry!"

    Oct 22: I open a case with eBay over the phone. They agree the item is NAD and give the seller until Oct 25 to send me a return label. I'm told that if the seller doesn't send a label by Oct 25, eBay will send me the label.

    Oct 25: No label has arrived and so I call eBay. A rep tells me they are putting a hold on my case until Oct 30. They will email the seller to tell them to send me a label. If the seller doesn't send a label by October 30, eBay will close the case and I will not have to return the bag and can cease further communication with the seller.

    Oct 30: No label has arrived and so I call eBay. Rep says that they are closing the case, I do not have to return the bag and can cease further communication with the seller. An email to confirm this will arrive in my inbox in 2 - 3 mins. No confirmation email an hour later and I call back. Different rep says email actually takes 24 hours to arrive. In the meantime, the seller emails me to ask for my email address to send funds for a label (past the deadline). I ignore his note per eBay's instructions.

    Oct 31: Still no confirmation email. I call and ask to speak with an Account Manager; she tells me email will take 24 - 48 hours to arrive, because it's a high-value item.

    Nov 2: Still no email. I call eBay and am told that the decision was reversed because they can see that the seller did ask for my email address but I did not respond (Because they told me I didn't have to, since the seller was emailing me after the deadline of Oct 30). I ask to speak to an Account Manager again; one can't be found so I am re-routed to a "specialist". He tells me that he sees my case has been dragging on, he will personally monitor my case now. In the meantime, because the seller was the last to correspond, I need to respond and tell him "You do not need my email address; please issue partial refund from Paypal to cover shipping costs". Specialist says that seller has until Nov 6 to send me either a shipping label, or funds to cover a shipping label. If seller messages me with anything other than a shipping label or funds to cover a shipping label, I am to ignore. If neither comes through no Nov 6, he will close the case and I will not have to return the bag and can cease communication with the seller.

    Nov 6: No shipping label or funds for shipping label have arrived so I call eBay. I'm told that the case will now be closed in my favour and they will send an email confirmation in 24 - 48 hours. Deja vu.

    Nov 7: Seller responds to say that he can't offer a partial refund, he needs my email to send a shipping label.

    Nov 8: I call to enquire about the confirmation email, which still has not arrived. Shocker. I'm told that again, since the seller has asked for my email and I have not responded (again, based on eBay's instructions and because it came after the case was supposedly closed), I have to respond with my email address. I do so and now the seller has TEN DAYS to send me a label. And if not, guess what?! I no longer have to return the bag and can cease communication with the seller!

    If you're still reading, thank you. This whole transaction has left me exhausted. I am honestly not trying to keep the bag and get a return; I just want eBay to honour what they have repeatedly told me, that the case is closed and that my refund will be arriving shortly.

    It seems like they are not paying any attention to timestamps; seller can respond whenever he feels like it, past the supposed deadline, and all is well. I don't even get notified that the case has been "re-opened" and awaiting my response; each time, if I hadn't called eBay, I'd have no idea that they were waiting for me to respond.

    Do any of you have experience with this and can offer any guidance of how to proceed? I'd really appreciate it.
     
  2. At this point you should ask for the seller's mailing address and return the bag using your own funds. Also respond to every message the seller sends you requesting addresses. eBay is giving you bad info. There is no way you should get to keep an authentic bag and be refunded. It should be one or the other. If you really want a refund, send the bag back to the seller, and let eBay know the tracking number.
     
  3. Instead of calling eBay directly, maybe you want to try using eBay message function there. That way everything is traceable with verifiable timestamps right on eBay. Easier for them to research too if disputes come up - he said she said.

    I just recently had a "dragged-on" refund in which me & seller just went back and forth on eBay msgs. Once I exhausted my "be nice" quotas for the month for this seller - I opened a return request with eBay. Lo & behold, got my refund the next day.

    Try to open the return request (NAD) on eBay. The seller can also refund you partially through that route if you both agree to an amount.
     
    Ndali likes this.
  4. This is something I've considered; I don't care about being out of pocket for shipping at this point. Is this a regular occurrence on eBay, for buyers to pay for return shipping i.e. the seller doesn't control what type of mailing service is used? Of course, if I went this route, I'd send it back with insurance, tracking, and signature upon delivery, but it makes me nervous to not have the bag and not have my money. Both the seller and eBay are being shady and I don't have confidence that either will act with integrity, at this point.
     
    insidemysoul likes this.
  5. Good call on using chat with eBay, I will definitely do that the next time I contact them. I even considered sending off an email (do they even have one?) after I typed up everything here.

    I was up for a partial response initially, but after the seller has been so uncooperative and has caused this to drag on for so long, I'm over it. He can have his flawed bag back, I want a full refund.

    I'm glad your refund came through...fingers crossed for mine! I think he's used up all my patience and "be nice" quota for this year as well as 2019.
     
  6. I had a similar situation with a nonresponsive seller who claimed the item was shipped. After giving the seller so many chances to respond and provide me with tracking info, item never arrived. I contacted Ebay concierge and they fixed the issue for me. I got a refund and sad at the same time because I really wanted the item.
     
    xincinsin likes this.
  7. Report this to eBay. eBay will then ask you to quote an amount (I calculate my postage in the Australia Post website, you should have the same in your country) which they will then approve, then instruct you to ship the item with tracking number to the seller. Depending on the price of the item, eBay will instruct you to obtain a signature upon delivery. Everything should be documented. Even when I call eBay, they give me the instructions through an email after the call.
     
  8. I'm bothered by several things, both on your end and on ebay's end.

    1. YOUR POST:
    Oct 11: I receive a Celine bag that has an obvious dent on the back and two on the front. At a certain lighting and angle, they can be avoided in photos but are obvious IRL. It doesn't appear to be damage per se, just natural graining of the leather. In any case, it was not mentioned or photographed in the listing. I email the seller to ask if they'd be willing to give a partial refund and if not, I'd like to return (seller has no returns clause).

    Per your OP (October 11), you state:
    "It doesn't appear to be damage per se, just natural graining of the leather. In any case, it was not mentioned or photographed in the listing."

    Since this is by your own admission "just natural graining of the leather," it's not necessary for the seller to have mentioned it. Leather is an organic product and different pieces of leather have different textures.

    Per that same post, you state, "I email the seller to ask if they'd be willing to give a partial refund and if not, I'd like to return (seller has no returns clause)" but since it's not a defect or a snad case, the seller is under no obligation to accept the return or to issue a partial. (She could have done so as a goodwill gesture but again, as you stated yourself, it's "just natural graining of the leather" and that you didn't like it doesn't mean that the seller made a mistake in the listing.

    2. You state that on October 25, you were told that if the seller doesn't send a label by October 30, eBay will close the case and I will not have to return the bag and can cease further communication with the seller. .

    BUT ............

    YOUR POST:

    Oct 30: No label has arrived and so I call eBay. Rep says that they are closing the case, I do not have to return the bag and can cease further communication with the seller. An email to confirm this will arrive in my inbox in 2 - 3 mins. No confirmation email an hour later and I call back. Different rep says email actually takes 24 hours to arrive. In the meantime, the seller emails me to ask for my email address to send funds for a label (past the deadline). I ignore his note per eBay's instructions.

    The seller didn't contact you "past the deadline." By policy, the seller had until the end of the day (11:59 PM pacific time) to send the label to you so if she contacted you earlier than midnight, she was abiding by the rules. You should have responded.

    You state several times that ebay told you certain things. Ebay is notorious for telling callers what they want to hear. It's not necessarily accurate information, just empty promises to get you off the phone. If they told you "not to respond" to the seller, that was bad advice and if you followed it, you messed up.

    Several times, the seller requested information and you refused to give it to her. How can she comply if you aren't replying to her?

    If she's still willing to give you a refund (for a non-SNAD, no-return listing), I think she's doing you a huge favor and you should purchase your own shipping label.

    Once you have tracking (and s.c. if $750+) showing delivery, THEN call ebay if she doesn't issue the refund.

    I think you were wrong in this situation.

    JMHO.
     
    Konicek007, BBC, holiday123 and 8 others like this.
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  10. Huh, that's an interesting take RE: Leather graining. I guess I was just going from my own perspective that if I were to list this bag as a seller, it's something that I'd point out in the interest of transparency. But now that you bring it up, yes, it is, as far as I can tell, a natural "flaw" of the leather. I didn't see it that way before. My only thing now is that the seller has repeatedly said it wasn't there when he packaged it for shipping. That, I don't believe to be true. First, he speculated that it was damaged in transit. Then in another message, he implied that I had used the bag already and damaged it myself.

    I wasn't aware that eBay worked in PST...the seller is in NYC and so I had assumed that it would be his deadline to respond would be in his timezone. Newbie mistake. When I called eBay once midnight had come and gone for him (I am in PST), they were quick to say yup, he missed his deadline, case closed in your favour, confirmation email is on its way. I realize now I was giving eBay way more credit than it deserves, as far as having its own reps follow consistent deadlines and advice go. This is my first time doing this and I am just trying to follow their instructions and it's clearly not serving me well.

    So, now what? Consensus seems to be that I pay out of pocket to return the bag. I'm happy to do so, I have spent too much time and energy on this transaction and I'd just like to put it behind me. My worry now is that the seller will receive the bag and not be willing to process the refund, since he claims that the dents weren't there when he last saw the bag. Obviously, I don't want to not have the bag and not have my refund. My confidence in eBay is shot, I don't trust them to force the return even if I have a tracking number showing delivery with signature. What do you guys think? Or should I just keep the darn bag?
     
  11. For what it's worth, I always state in my eBay selling information that: 'buyer pays postage for any refunds'. I also state that returns must be sent via Royal Mail 1st Class signed for - which is how I post all of my sold items.

    However, as a Seller, I personally would also have noted the obvious dent in the rear of the bag with photos and descriptions, explaining this is just natural graining of the leather as you surmised. This would've given you, the Buyer, full disclosure.
    That would have avoided this whole situation as you could have made your decision not to purchase.

    I do agree with BeenBurned in that you should have continued communication with the Seller. That doesn't help you now but in future I would advise this, despite what eBay tells you.

    Using the 'chat' option with eBay has worked well for me as there is a record of this and you receive a transcription of your conversation afterwards. I would persevere and use this option.

    Good luck with a mutually beneficial solution to this issue.
     
  12. If it's a natural graining issue, I don't see grounds for a return at all. This is not something the seller has control over. If you consider it a manufacturing fault, you should be in contact with the company. Or the cow.

    This is why prices have gone so high in some areas. This is what I consider a faulty return.
     
  13. I don't have any useful info to offer you as I'm a newbie too. I'm just reading along trying to learn as much as possible but still wanted to chime in and offer my support. I know how frustrating these things can be.
     
  14. Like so many other posters, you haven't disclosed the listing and you haven't shown pictures so all the advice you're receiving is based on speculation and your word.

    So with that said, I'll comment on the seller's response based on how I'd feel if someone confronted me with a similar issue.

    Since the seller knows she sold an item without flaws (other than possible irregularities inherent to the nature of leather) and you're complaining about a "flaw," it's a natural conclusion that something happened after shipment, either in transit or after delivery to you. (As a lurker, you've probably read posts where this has happened!)

    Whether you like my following suggestion or not, I'm going to make it.

    Since you're honest to have admitted that the irregularity isn't a flaw, since the item isn't SNAD and since the seller has a no-return policy, she's certainly within her rights to deny the return and if so, there's no reason why you can't resell the bag yourself.

    It does sound as though she's willing to take the bag back (and IMO, that's a good seller), return shipping as well as original shipping should be at your expense.

    You're worried about sending it back and not receiving your refund.

    If you want buyer protection, you must use s.c. if the total amount of your payment was $750+. So once delivery is made with s.c., the honest seller will probably issue the refund but should she not do so, you can contact either ebay or paypal, present tracking and signature to show receipt by the seller and they'll release the funds.
     
    eunaddict and meepabeep like this.
  15. If you bought from a local store and hand carried it back to the store, they might be willing to refund or exchange.

    If you insist on shipping it back to this seller, return shipping should be on you.
     
    meepabeep and PixieChick72 like this.