Returning when seller doesn't accept returns?

jwolt

Member
Aug 29, 2009
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0
I bought a handbag off ebay in NWT condition for a great price (I once owned the same handbag a few years ago, so knew I already liked the bag). Well, it came yesterday, and I open it up and to my dismay, the leather was stiff and dry, with sections of the bag looking like they are about to start peeling, which is definitely not how the leather is supposed to look or feel.

The bag came with all of its tags and hardware still covered in plastic, so it is technically NWT, but the leather quality almost seems like a defect. The seller's listing included several photos, a stock description of the purse, and just a short note to: "Please, read the description carefully and look through the pictures, and ask me any questions you have before bidding." From the pictures the bag looked fine.

Needless to say, I am really unhappy with the leather on this bag but am unsure if this is grounds enough to request a refund from the seller. Can anyone weigh in? I don't want to be that annoying buyer asking for a refund and I don't think she intentionally misrepresented the bag, but the leather is really kind of awful and I would not have purchsed it if I had known its condition. Is it wrong to think that NWT means first quality?

Thanks in advance and stay warm!
 
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Apr 15, 2007
63,963
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NWT has different meanings to many...

I would write the seller & let her know that you are disappointed in the feel
of the leather.

Since you have owned this bag at one time you are familiar enough to know
how the bag should look & feel. You describe the bag as stiff & dry & with sections
looking like they are about to peel.

Is it possible that this bag was purchased at an outlet or off price & hence
it might have been sold that way??? Maybe the seller didn't know how it should
look or feel??

There are times one wants to give the seller the benefit of the doubt... If you
don't think she intentionally misrepresented the item, you have to share your
thoughts with her & see if she will work with you in some way.

If not, you will have to decide what to do

How did you fund this purchase?? With a credit card??

Give your seller a chance to respond.
 

BeenBurned

Coach, Dooney, Uggs
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Feb 25, 2007
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Is it wrong to think that NWT means first quality?
IMO, NWT has nothing to do with first quality, irregular, 2nds, etc. NWT indicates condition as to use and only means that the bag is brand new, hasn't been used and tags are attached (or included for brands/items that don't attach tags).

As for the type of leather, that could just be the nature of leather being a natural product. The leather from different cows can have a different texture. Hides from different parts of the same cow will feel and look different. Grains vary, color varies, thickness varies.

It's very common to go to the store, "test drive" 3 different bags of the identical style and color, and find that they all "feel" slightly different. Leather varies.

As long as the bag is authentic, it's unfair to expect the seller to take a return based on the feel of leather, something that's completely out of her control.

If the seller isn't agreeable to the return (and IMO, she isn't obligated), perhaps she'll allow you to list and resell it yourself with her pictures.
 

unoma

I wish i was rich :)
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Jul 10, 2008
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imo, nwt has nothing to do with first quality, irregular, 2nds, etc. Nwt indicates condition as to use and only means that the bag is brand new, hasn't been used and tags are attached (or included for brands/items that don't attach tags).

As for the type of leather, that could just be the nature of leather being a natural product. The leather from different cows can have a different texture. Hides from different parts of the same cow will feel and look different. Grains vary, color varies, thickness varies.

It's very common to go to the store, "test drive" 3 different bags of the identical style and color, and find that they all "feel" slightly different. Leather varies.

As long as the bag is authentic, it's unfair to expect the seller to take a return based on the feel of leather, something that's completely out of her control.

If the seller isn't agreeable to the return (and imo, she isn't obligated), perhaps she'll allow you to list and resell it yourself with her pictures.
+1
 
Aug 5, 2010
586
37
St. Louis
I disagree. I list many handbags on ebay, and ebay has a note that pops up under condition for NWT that says the item has to be in brand new condition - and they offer a special "new with defects" to list items which have tags and are new, but are not in pristine condition.

In my opinion, if the original retailer would not have sold that item in the condition it is in, it should be listed as new with defects. If there is a problem with the bag that was not disclosed in the listing, you should be able to return it for a refund.
 

BeenBurned

Coach, Dooney, Uggs
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Feb 25, 2007
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I disagree. I list many handbags on ebay, and ebay has a note that pops up under condition for NWT that says the item has to be in brand new condition - and they offer a special "new with defects" to list items which have tags and are new, but are not in pristine condition.

In my opinion, if the original retailer would not have sold that item in the condition it is in, it should be listed as new with defects. If there is a problem with the bag that was not disclosed in the listing, you should be able to return it for a refund.
Who is to say it's defective? It's in its original packaging, never been used and as described by the OP, is pristine.

Her complaint isn't with the condition; it's with the texture/feel of the leather. That's not a defect; it's a natural variation of the leather.
 

Skittle

Member
Jun 25, 2012
559
756
I always describe and take detailed pictures of any leather variation that is visible, even when I list NWT. I do not always consider the leather variation a defect, so I do not list as New with defects, but I know that some people might be bothered by the look of the purse. Buying online is not easy, and I want my customers to be happy with their purchases.

I did have a purse bought directly from the designer, which had some leather variation that looked wrong, so I listed it with defects.

People not describing accurately their items is the reason I don't buy much on ebay. I get items with defects all the time buying online from major department stores, but at least I know I can return them.
 
Aug 5, 2010
586
37
St. Louis
She says the leather appears as though it is starting to peel. If that is visible, it is a defect in the leather. The leather should not look like that on any bag I have seen.

Of course we are only hearing OP's description, but that is always the case here.
 

jwolt

Member
Aug 29, 2009
40
0
OP here. It is good to hear from other people's perspectives!

I buy and sell a lot on ebay so I understand that technically this falls under NWT as it is packaged that way and has never been used, and I understand that the seller isn't obligated to honor a request for return just because I'm unsatisfied by the "feel" of the leather.

However, I have owned/own a good number contemporary leather goods (RM, Botkier, LP, Kate Spade, etc) and while I accept natural variations, even mismatched panels, etc., but this is almost certainly a quality issue/defect with the cracking. I am familiar with the brand and its leather, and if the seller isn't, then I guess I can't necessarily expect them to notice or point something like this out. If I end up reselling it, I could only in good conscience list this as NWT with defects and make a note of the leather issues including several closeup images. I tend to be overly descriptive in my listings though because I don't want there to be any suprises.

Anyways, I guess this is a good reminder that there's always an element of risk when buying on ebay. I might reach out to the seller to see if she's willing to work with me, but can only hope for the best and do not expect her to take it as a return.
 
Apr 15, 2007
63,963
9,267
OP here. It is good to hear from other people's perspectives!

I buy and sell a lot on ebay so I understand that technically this falls under NWT as it is packaged that way and has never been used, and I understand that the seller isn't obligated to honor a request for return just because I'm unsatisfied by the "feel" of the leather.

However, I have owned/own a good number contemporary leather goods (RM, Botkier, LP, Kate Spade, etc) and while I accept natural variations, even mismatched panels, etc., but this is almost certainly a quality issue/defect with the cracking. I am familiar with the brand and its leather, and if the seller isn't, then I guess I can't necessarily expect them to notice or point something like this out. If I end up reselling it, I could only in good conscience list this as NWT with defects and make a note of the leather issues including several closeup images. I tend to be overly descriptive in my listings though because I don't want there to be any suprises.

Anyways, I guess this is a good reminder that there's always an element of risk when buying on ebay. I might reach out to the seller to see if she's willing to work with me, but can only hope for the best and do not expect her to take it as a return.
It sounds like you have seen & touched enough bags to know that this seems
to be a quality issue with the leather.

Would contact the seller, perhaps send pictures of the leather areas
that are of concern to you, and see what the seller is willing to do.

And any leather bag that looks like it is going to peel would seem
to be defective..

You have nothing to lose at this point & perhaps your seller was
not even aware of this issue.

It is worth a shot, IMO...
 

northerndancer

What, me worry?
O.G.
Dec 30, 2007
5,072
698
The Cool Cool North
I bought a handbag off ebay in NWT condition for a great price (I once owned the same handbag a few years ago, so knew I already liked the bag). Well, it came yesterday, and I open it up and to my dismay, the leather was stiff and dry, with sections of the bag looking like they are about to start peeling, which is definitely not how the leather is supposed to look or feel.

The bag came with all of its tags and hardware still covered in plastic, so it is technically NWT, but the leather quality almost seems like a defect. The seller's listing included several photos, a stock description of the purse, and just a short note to: "Please, read the description carefully and look through the pictures, and ask me any questions you have before bidding." From the pictures the bag looked fine.

Needless to say, I am really unhappy with the leather on this bag but am unsure if this is grounds enough to request a refund from the seller. Can anyone weigh in? I don't want to be that annoying buyer asking for a refund and I don't think she intentionally misrepresented the bag, but the leather is really kind of awful and I would not have purchsed it if I had known its condition. Is it wrong to think that NWT means first quality?

Thanks in advance and stay warm!
It is not wrong to think NWT means first quality. New means more than just "unused'."

What "new" means

An item is considered "New" when it meets the following guidelines:
It's in the original condition from the manufacturer, distributor, or retailer.
It hasn't been refurbished or used for any purpose.
It has no known defects or damages.


If there is anything about the item that is substandard, that should be mentioned in the listing.

Leather that is so dry that it is on the verge of peeling is not a natural variation in the leather and is substandard. IMO, you are certainly within your rights to request a return. Good luck.
 
Apr 15, 2007
63,963
9,267
It is not wrong to think NWT means first quality. New means more than just "unused'."

What "new" means

An item is considered "New" when it meets the following guidelines:
It's in the original condition from the manufacturer, distributor, or retailer.
It hasn't been refurbished or used for any purpose.
It has no known defects or damages.


If there is anything about the item that is substandard, that should be mentioned in the listing.

Leather that is so dry that it is on the verge of peeling is not a natural variation in the leather and is substandard. IMO, you are certainly within your rights to request a return. Good luck.
+1... I would contact the seller for sure...
 

BeenBurned

Coach, Dooney, Uggs
Authenticator
O.G.
Feb 25, 2007
47,437
16,166
East Coast, USA
It is not wrong to think NWT means first quality. New means more than just "unused'."

What "new" means

An item is considered "New" when it meets the following guidelines:
It's in the original condition from the manufacturer, distributor, or retailer.
It hasn't been refurbished or used for any purpose.
It has no known defects or damages.


If there is anything about the item that is substandard, that should be mentioned in the listing.

Leather that is so dry that it is on the verge of peeling is not a natural variation in the leather and is substandard. IMO, you are certainly within your rights to request a return. Good luck.
While I don't disagree with the definition of "new," the operative word in part of the definition is KNOWN. As described by the OP, "The bag came with all of its tags and hardware still covered in plastic," so presumably, the seller didn't even unwrap the bag and probably wouldn't have known whether there were problems. And if the seller isn't familiar with the brand and type of leather, how is she to know whether it's in the original condition from the manufacturer or if the type of leather is substandard, especially not having opened and unwrapped it?

As the seller, I would probably accept the return in this case, maybe more because I know how ebay and paypal tend to rule in such disputes, but also, as a seller, I'd worry about feedback. And depending on when I purchased the bag and how long it's been sitting, I might be apt to contact the manufacturer.
 

stacala23

Member
Apr 30, 2008
366
3
I sell on ebay as well and I do write no returns accepted but definitely would take back something if the seller was unhappy with the bag or if they thought the pics and viewing the bag in person was "not as advertised". I would contact the seller and tell them you're not happy with the bag and see what they write back. It never hurts to ask!!! Good luck!!
 
Apr 15, 2007
63,963
9,267
While I don't disagree with the definition of "new," the operative word in part of the definition is KNOWN. As described by the OP, "The bag came with all of its tags and hardware still covered in plastic," so presumably, the seller didn't even unwrap the bag and probably wouldn't have known whether there were problems. And if the seller isn't familiar with the brand and type of leather, how is she to know whether it's in the original condition from the manufacturer or if the type of leather is substandard, especially not having opened and unwrapped it?

As the seller, I would probably accept the return in this case, maybe more because I know how ebay and paypal tend to rule in such disputes, but also, as a seller, I'd worry about feedback. And depending on when I purchased the bag and how long it's been sitting, I might be apt to contact the manufacturer.
And this is exactly the reason why the OP should contact the seller..
Since the bag came with all the hardware & tags still in plastic,
it doesn't appear that she looked it over before she shipped it...

The seller might not have known or seen the areas of the bag that the
OP is questioning & since the OP has had the bag in the past, it
was different than what she had previously.

The OP should send pics of the areas she sees potential problems
with & they should try to resolve this amicably if possible.

The OP sounds like she is fair & reasonable & if the seller does accept
the return, the OP should take all of that into consideration before leaving
feedback which would think she would.. She is a seller herself
so these things do happen unknowingly..

To me this sounds like an oversight by the seller not intentional
misrepresentation & perhaps unfamiliarity with this bag & how the
leather looks & feels...
 
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