Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh

#797
QueenofWrapDress said:
The one tiara the Royals never use

It is kind of a stupid title (because the BRF doesn't even own it) but that thing, the Hesse Strawberry Leaf tiara, seems to be pretty murderous. It might all be a coincidence, but several families who owned it have been left completely decimated.

Originally a wedding gift of Prince Albert to one of his daughters (spoiler: he died, she died, three of her children died), there is a horrible connection to Philip: it was inherited by his sister Cecilie's husband. It was on board of that plane, and survived both the crash and the fire. It's believed to have gone to their new SIL (or rather, Cecilie's BIL) whose wedding they had wanted to attend, but at that point the family had learned the lesson and is has not been seen since.
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Maybe they should have let you know who have this one
 
#799
QueenofWrapDress said:
Speaking of inheriting titles and such, when our local count died - who happend to be one of Germany's richest men not necessarily in cash but in land and castles - his youngest son took over instead of the oldest, which I thought was odd because it was news to me that German nobility lets you pick and chose who's your favourite kid.

So that guy, by all accounts super likeable, super educated and young (as in, mid 30s...we actually went to the same school) publicly said in an interview he hasn't decided yet which of his kids will inherit the title (I mean, the oldest is around George's age and the youngest a toddler) but it won't be one of the daughters because - wait for it - that would be oh so unfair to all the women before them who never got the chance. Which I feel is a really, really lame excuse for "I'm just another traditionalist" (all but one of his siblings married nobility too, his wife is actually a born princess).
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I believe this is because in Germany, nobility does no longer “exist” as such, having been “abolished” long ago. There are no laws of the State regulating titles and no royalty with responsibility over the granting of titles, so really, you can do what you want. Bearing a title is not a right or interest that can be protected, like before a court.

In Spain for example, the law now provides that the first child, male or female, inherits the main title of the parent. There are no privileges attached to titles, but you can go to court to dispute who bears them, and there are lots of court cases. You also have to pay taxes for each title you hold.
 
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#800
doni said:
I believe this is because in Germany, nobility does no longer “exist” as such, having been “abolished” long ago. There are no laws of the State regulating titles and no royalty with responsibility over the granting of titles, so really, you can do what you want. Bearing a title is not a right or interest that can be protected, like before a court.
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I'm not sure to which degree it matters what the state has to say or not. These people usually do what they've done for centuries despite of toppled over governments etc. When you look to the other big houses it's usually the eldest son who inherits, not a random kid. I'll investigate a little though because now that I've shared the story I'm curious again as to how and why :biggrin:

In Spain for example, the law now provides that the first child, male or female, inherits the main title of the parent. There are no privileges attached to titles, but you can go to court to dispute who bears them, and there are lots of court cases. You also have to pay taxes for each title you hold.
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Interesting. Why is that, though? If you see Philip, he had a very noble title, but it didn't come with a fortune.
 
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#806
QueenofWrapDress said:
I'm not sure to which degree it matters what the state has to say or not. These people usually do what they've done for centuries despite of toppled over governments etc. When you look to the other big houses it's usually the eldest son who inherits, not a random kid. I'll investigate a little though because now that I've shared the story I'm curious again as to how and why :biggrin:
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Tradition is what keeps things going, but what the State says and the fact of being in a monarchy or state that recognizes nobility does matter because things are regulated and there are rights and faithful claims that can be enforced. So in Spain or the UK the older son would claim their title, the Graff could not just do as he pleases and choose a son to inherit. But in Germany, the Graff does not even exist. He can do whatever. So they do. There is nothing official about it or any procedure you have to follow. You have things like the Gotha, but that was also interrupted in the 40s and the current version questioned and there is lots of disputing....

QueenofWrapDress said:
Interesting. Why is that, though? If you see Philip, he had a very noble title, but it didn't come with a fortune.
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There are costs attached to the running of nobility, succession is managed by the authorities and it is a cumbersome procedure that some department has to take care of, courts are called to take decisions... I guess the idea it that the attached taxes finance all this? Plus, even though there are no actual privileges attached to titles, they are recognized, you have it in your documents, they given you right to treatments etc, so it is understood as something favorable. But it is just a guess.
 
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#807
I beg to differ. German peerage, even if downgraded and robbed of their monarch, not only does have their own legal committee ("Deutscher Adelsrechtsausschuss") that monitors the observance of historic nobiliary and peerage law, it's actually a niche of law laywers can be specialized in. Which by implication means there are indeed still binding laws, and it's not completely random :biggrin:
 
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