Paypal sucks

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  1. I can't believe this is happening to me.

    I sold a pair of Badgley Mischka shoes outside of ebay. They are new, and I promise I've only worn them to try on indoors. I sold them for half of the retail price.

    My buyer had haggled me down on price trying to get the best price she could get to the point where we finally negotiated down the shipping fees by me not shipping the original box. In the end, I ended up undercharging her for shipping.

    Now I get a dispute through paypal stating that it's SNAD that there's scuffs and stains. I called paypal and basically their advice was to keep the buyer happy.

    They wouldn't protect me if there's a chargeback even if they side with me if it was escalated to a claim.

    I'm trying to offer her a partial refund. But now she wants my new shoes for 25% of retail. That seriously sucks.
  2. She basically turned down my refund and have threatened to escalate to a claim.

    What are the cons to this?
  3. #3 Feb 10, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2010
    She purchased the item outside of e-bay. The only buyer protection she has with PayPal is INR. The buyer does not have SNAD protection if purchased outside e-bay. I am surprised with PayPal's response. Call them again and make sure you make it clear it was a transaction "outside" of e-bay. However, if she paid with a CC she can still file a charge back with her cc company but will need to return the items first and provide tracking and delivery confirmation (at least with most CC companys).

    Ellie please correct me if I am wrong ...
  4. Correct, pzold, to the best of my knowledge.

    As to the chargeback.... MOST CC co's that I have seen do require that a buyer return the merchandise to the seller. However, there have been a few reports of buyers keeping the merchandise and still claiming a refund via charge back.
    SO... crazee... I would make sure PP understands about the non-ebay transaction. They should close the claim in your favor for a non-ebay transaction if buyer escalates to a claim.
    As to PP's recommendation to keep the buyer happy.....PP may simply be telling you to keep the buyer happy in case she files a charge back. It is the buyer's CC co that decides a charge back, and no PP does not offer any seller protection in instance of charge back for SNAD.
    If you have not already, read the PP User Agreement, paragraphs 11 & 13.
  5. My biggest fear is the chargeback. I don't want her to get my money AND keep the shoes. That to me is fraud.

    I've tried every possible way to work it out amicably with the buyer. Unfortunately, she wants the shoes. She just wants it at a price that I just couldn't accept.

    I have escalated it to a claim. Paypal is aware that it isn't an ebay transaction.

    If she does decide to do a chargeback, what would the next course of action be?
  6. If she does do a chargeback, you should ask for the shoes back.

    Upon inspection you can then issue her money back.. this is a unpleasant

    situation to be in.. she can contact her cc & also dispute the charge..
  7. The charge back SHOULD be your biggest fear, as you will have virtually no say-so. The CC co will decide (in favor of their client, typically) and they will refund her the $$. None of it will be up to you.
    PP will contact you, and I suppose at that time, you could offer a full refund upon return of the merchandise, and see if she will send the shoes back. In whatever condition. PP would hopefully advise you if they need any documentation, etc, from you at that time.
  8. crazzee Have you yet offered the buyer a full refund upon return of the shoes?
  9. Yes I did. Multiple times. She ignored my offers.
  10. #10 Feb 10, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2010
    At this point I would tell her to send them back for a refund. It sounds like she really wants them and is just trying to get you to give them to her.

    As far as a charge/back, unfortunately you will just have to wait and see if she does not agree to return them for a refund. Each credit card company is a little different and MOST cc companies require the buyer to first send the item back with proof of delivery (but as mentioned, there have been some isolated cases where this was not the case and the buyer got the $$ and the item). But these cases are the "EXCEPTION rather than rule."

    If she does a charge/back you will be notified through PayPal because the payment was made through PayPal. If the buyer does not agree to return for a refund..... at this point it is a waiting game to see if she does and then it is all up to the cc company.

    I am sorry this has happened.

    OPPS ... Posting at the same time
  11. It's just a waiting game right now.

    This really does suck. All I have been trying to do is down-size my shoe collection. But now it makes me not want to resell anything for a fear of getting scammed.
  12. Good. If she were to win a PP claim, PP would require that she return the shoes, so I am guessing she's just after a better buy-price, as you suspect. Maybe once she figures out that her partial refund attempts are in vain, she will just give up and go away.
  13. HM... I wonder if a seller has ever won a charge back dispute based on the fact that the buyer refused a full refund upon return prior to the charge back being filed....??

    crazzee... do you have any written record of the buyer refusing to accept a full refund upon return??

  14. Good Point ..... and if the written refusal is through the PayPal Resolution Center then all the better if and when a charge/back is initiated.
  15. Everything is documented in paypal. Though the history of the log is super long and now I only see the last 5 comments. When I contacted paypal, they said they have access to the log and can submit that to the credit card company. I just don't know if they have access to the entire log vs the last 5 comments.

    She didn't state that she refused, she just kept ignoring my offer and stated that she wants a partial refund or else she would escalate it to a claim.