Maintaining an H relationship

[papertiger]

Please focus on the title of this thread rather than each other, TY

If you find it very hard to ignore certain people, please feel free in adding them to your 'Ignore' list.

For advice on how to obtain a B/K/C please go to the reading room in the Reading Room The Newbie's HOW DO I GET A BIRKIN (or other bag) Reading Room

For advice on how to shop at your local store please do a search in Hermes Shopping sub-forum and look for your store/region/country.

 

[Helventara]

I'm curious which boutique/country this is... OP may not want to share, but any guesses, anyone??

Is it Denmark or Sweden?!

Italy? Venice? (Based on the remark of water taxi expense ?)

 

[880]

If people are only buying stuff they don't actually want to get a bag, then they are wasting their hard-earned money, and probably churning the cr@p they never wanted in the first place, buying things in one store and returning them to another, playing games of their own to artificially inflate pre-spend etc etc etc. No wonder it's exhausting! It seems rational on an individual level - we're all just cogs in a wheel, right? - but all those individually rational actions add up to an irrational market outcome. In other words, if we do that, we are only contributing to the problem that we lament. So don't do it. You're not trapped. It's just a bag. You can buy the bag of your dreams, from a reputable reseller and get it authenticated, right now. So if your current approach to shopping is not working, change it. Don't expect Hermès to change for you because bitter experience should have taught you by now that that will not happen any time soon.

💯 If people don’t like boutique merchandise, then they shouldn’t waste their money. To me, buying only to return is a waste of my time, not only that of the SA. I only count what I buy and keep as prespend and I assumed that’s what others do as well lol. But, I only buy what I love and can easily afford; some of the specialty bags are simply out of my price point, and I simply enjoy seeing others buy them I’m at the end of my bag arc, but im happy to have discovered select boutique RTW that works with what I already own. My SA relationships work for me bc my SAs understand what I want and what I want to spend. If I say, I’m happy to spend x on y item but not on z item, they respect that. But, I also intend to shop for a few more decades at least lol, and I’m trying to shop mindfully.

Reseal route is mentioned a lot however, a lot of people will not consider it an option for various reasons: worrying about counterfeits; wanting to get more for the money i.e. some items they purchased plus the bag for the price of the bag on resale market; thrill of being offered a bag; pride of being able to secure one from the actual store; special experience of going to the store, buying the bag and carrying it home in the big box. Buying online may feel more transactional, and I’m sure many people want for it to be an experience. After all, each bag is an insane amount of money and for most people the purchase is significant.

Obviously resale market is thriving so many to go in that direction. However for many it is either buying at the store or not buying at all.

For some of us, resale is a way to obtain discontinued or rare patinated heritage leather. I wouldn’t recommend buying newer marked up bags that are flipped for profit, but of course there is something for everyone If someone simply wants a bag without spending for other things, I assume resale may be the main viable option.

ETA: @OnlyModa , meant to say, agree with you in the main points Just meant to say, if something isn’t working to get you what you want, try another option. We all have control of our wallets and actions (and hopefully our mental health and happiness)

 

[addiCCted]

Italy? Venice? (Based on the remark of water taxi expense ?)

St barths

 

[OnlyModa]

If people don’t like boutique merchandise, then they shouldn’t waste their money. To me, buying only to return is a waste of my time, not only that of the SA. I only count what I buy and keep as prespend and I assumed that’s what others do as well lol. But, I only buy what I love and can easily afford; some of the specialty bags are simply out of my price point, and I simply enjoy seeing others buy them I’m at the end of my bag arc, but im happy to have discovered select boutique RTW that works with what I already own. My SA relationships work for me bc my SAs understand what I want and what I want to spend. If I say, I’m happy to spend x on y item but not on z item, they respect that. But, I also intend to shop for a few more decades at least lol, and I’m trying to shop mindfully.

For some of us, resale is a way to obtain discontinued or rare patinated heritage leather. I wouldn’t recommend buying newer marked up bags that are flipped for profit, but of course there is something for everyone If someone simply wants a bag without spending for other things, I assume resale may be the main viable option.

@880 i am not at all being high brow about it. You are also a very experienced H shopper and have check marks against all of my line items- you have received store offers, you can identify a reputable reseller and so on. Yes, better put is that my thoughts apply to a flipped bag

 

[880]

@880 i am not at all being high brow about it. You are also a very experienced H shopper and have check marks against all of my line items- you have received store offers, you can identify a reputable reseller and so on. Yes, better put is that my thoughts apply to a flipped bag

Didn’t mean to imply anything like that, and edited my post above to clarify my agreement with your points Thank you for your kind compliment. My wallet and my SAs are grateful that I mainly gravitate towards simpler bags in regular calf leather Re your point about colleges, decades ago, i helped raise my adopted stepbrother and shepherd him (get him in and drag him out lol) through private school, music and squash and other extracurriculars, culminating in six interminable years of an Ivy League undergraduate education, complete with advisors, aides, counselors, consultant services, and special accommodations, galore — all with arguably questionable payoff lol— so a bag process is well, a bag 😆

 

[Bdbunny]

Of course those forums will be filled with complaints. What else do you expect? I'm not on those forums because I have nothing I feel like complaining about to a bunch of strangers, I don't care to drag down my day by reading others' complaints, whether justified or not, especially since nothing I might say can possibly change the outcome for them, and I find I am much happier that way. Social media rarely makes things better.

SAs say encouraging things all the time - they are in sales, after all - but generally speaking they do not make promises, they do not decide who receives a bag and anything that sounds like a promise should be ignored. Surely we all know this by now?

JMO but this is really why it's so much better not to even think of the "other" things you buy at Hermès as "pre-spend" for a bag that no SA can ever promise you will be yours until the moment the box is opened in front of you.

It's been said countless times here, but truly, it is essential to only buy things you love and want or need. That is the best way to stop the cycle that @OnlyModa rightly laments. That way you won't feel like you are trapped by the sunk cost if your dream bag doesn't eventuate because you'll still have things you love and would have bought anyway. You won't feel like you've been played in a game where the rules are set by someone else. And of course, we all know that you can buy any bag you want, BNIB on the resale market. You don't have to choose to shop in any particular way if it is not getting you the items you would like. You can't control what Hermès does, but you can control the choices that you make.

It's really so much better for your equanimity and emotional wellbeing if you can release yourself from a focus on pre-spend and just enjoy the shopping. The bags come - this is 100% my experience - when the relationship is not negotiated on a transactional basis. If you don't enjoy the shopping and the relationship (and I can certainly understand why based on your experience you seem not to be enjoying any part of it), take your business to another place where you do enjoy it and are welcomed as a valuable client.

This 💯!!!!! I couldn’t agree with you more @Veritybelle!

 

[mmvv22]

@Angiebbb I hope you get a bag and resolve all issues with that store soon and forget it as a bad dream. Would you keep a bag though after such experience? I don’t have many bags so each one I have is very special to me because I have a little story how I got it during my trips to Europe. So when I look at each of them I smile because I remember a wonderful SA who made it happen for me. When you get your SO or another quota bag from that store after all of that, won’t it remind you about that experience? I hope not. I totally can understand that wish for justice. 🤍

 

[Angiebbb]

Of course everybody should buy what they want. Take a step back. How can that be a fallacy? I really try to keep this simple in my own mind - why on earth would I buy something I don't want? I'm not playing any games and I love the bags and wish to add to my collection. I only buy what I want, I won't even consider things I don't want and, with that "strategy," in the last 6 months I have been offered and have accepted several beautiful bags I love, including an amazing aizome piece that I adore, a shadow B in a rare colour and I made an SO.

I like my SA, but I'm under no illusions about her being my friend. That doesn't mean that my only other approach is to treat it as a wholly transactional exchange. There's a million gradations in between those two poles, as everybody who has worked in any professional services field knows.

If people are only buying stuff they don't actually want to get a bag, then they are wasting their hard-earned money, and probably churning the cr@p they never wanted in the first place, buying things in one store and returning them to another, playing games of their own to artificially inflate pre-spend etc etc etc. No wonder it's exhausting! It seems rational on an individual level - we're all just cogs in a wheel, right? - but all those individually rational actions add up to an irrational market outcome. In other words, if we do that, we are only contributing to the problem that we lament. So don't do it. You're not trapped. It's just a bag. You can buy the bag of your dreams, from a reputable reseller and get it authenticated, right now. So if your current approach to shopping is not working, change it. Don't expect Hermès to change for you because bitter experience should have taught you by now that that will not happen any time soon.

Dear, I think it is very clear from what I wrote that if I love a $10k jacket, I prefer to buy it on resale for $3-4k if a bag is not going to be offered eventually. The same reasoning applies to all other merchandise. “Buy what one loves” doesn’t exist if bags will not come to most people. Even H knows that. It is best to buy all these products on the secondary market discounted, BNIB, from online groups. I love scarves, I love belts, bracelets etc. Without bags, the result would be the same with mega savings. Hence it is a fallacy to me. I am always puzzled how can people in online groups find it enjoyable to buy $20k of stuff and resell for $8k or less just for a bag, but I am very happy to buy from them. Lots of resellers have multiple accounts everywhere, but lots are just normal people that like a few products but not enough to be offered bags every season. I don’t understand how they deal with uncertainty all the time.

Your experience is not everyone’s experience, and certainly not mine. It doesn’t mean that my experience is not valid because I wasn’t treated like you or others. If SA made statements to me, I took her for her word, even tried to help her daughter, brought the whole store candy at every trip, it is clear that I wasn’t seeing it as transactional. I quite liked her. It is clear she didn’t have the same feelings towards me, and that she was just doing what was best for her agenda. That doesn’t make me a criminal and I definitely should not be attacked for that.

I believe that there are great and honest people out there, so I try to believe everyone is like that. Now if she makes me and my husband travel for nothing, statements she doesn’t fulfill etc., all that I could do was to call her out on her behavior. I gave her many chances, so now I don’t wish to even say “hi” to her again. I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect someone to own her behavior.

There are great SAs out there, but I think nowadays if someone has a newer account or didn’t find the right one in the beginning, it is much harder to find one. My guard is so up now that I couldn’t possibly enjoy the SA hunting experience. I certainly have been there and done that, so I won’t do it again. I am happy to buy what I like here and there with these two people I like and that seem to be honest with me, otherwise I prefer to receive discounted items at the comfort of my home.

I agree with you that the system won’t change, and from all stories I hear, it is only becoming worse. Many SAs seem to be at great pressure to sell, to the point that one was asking for my friend’s credit card for blanket purchases. The same friend dropped $50k in less than one hour with this SA twice, and SA wasn’t thrilled when she came next to purchase just a couple of scarves. It seems that there is an expectation that if you get in the store you need to spend at least $10k in jewelry or RTW within one hour to not waste their time. God forbid you want a few scarves, belts and/or twillies, it is best to buy online so you don’t have to bother the SA. Honestly, that is not the way it is supposed to be for me. Even people that have long-term accounts have been reporting such behavior change.

 

[HonOlive]

Reseal route is mentioned a lot however, a lot of people will not consider it an option for various reasons: worrying about counterfeits; wanting to get more for the money i.e. some items they purchased plus the bag for the price of the bag on resale market; thrill of being offered a bag; pride of being able to secure one from the actual store; special experience of going to the store, buying the bag and carrying it home in the big box. Buying online may feel more transactional, and I’m sure many people want for it to be an experience. After all, each bag is an insane amount of money and for most people the purchase is significant.

All of the above mentioned reasons are the benefits of getting the bag in store but one needs to pay for it + understands the uncertainty around whether you may or may not get the bag. So a shopper who has decided to go to the store route should have understood these points clearly and be ready for these costs - cant blame anyone for the costs they have to go through. Obviously H practice is not noble but they are a firm trying to maximize their profits and are not forcing anyone to do what they want their clients to do. Whatever promises SA makes, when there is no paper trace, the promises are cheap talk.

All this is to say that we make our own choices and each comes with pros and cons, not always obvious that one dominates others and if a choice is not working, maybe its time to find a different one.

 

[Angiebbb]

All of the above mentioned reasons are the benefits of getting the bag in store but one needs to pay for it + understands the uncertainty around whether you may or may not get the bag. So a shopper who has decided to go to the store route should have understood these points clearly and be ready for these costs - cant blame anyone for the costs they have to go through. Obviously H practice is not noble but they are a firm trying to maximize their profits and are not forcing anyone to do what they want their clients to do. Whatever promises SA makes, when there is no paper trace, the promises are cheap talk.

All this is to say that we make our own choices and each comes with pros and cons, not always obvious that one dominates others and if a choice is not working, maybe its time to find a different one.

If you are using unethical behavior (bait and switch, making promises you already know you might not be able to fulfill, making people travel for nothing, and so on and so forth) then you are crossing a line. You can’t say that it is the customer’s fault that the customer believed you.

Consumer laws everywhere state that these behaviors are forbidden. The consumer code in such place states businesses need to be honest to customers.

I am telling you I have a ton of paper trail. Still I had to hear from temporary manager that “he sincerely doubt.” He got a barrage of indisputable evidence. Did he reply to me or my husband after that? No, he attacked me on the phone before he was presented with all the evidence, he basically called me a liar, and then disappeared. He just thanked me for the messages and stated “he would inform himself.” Both my husband and I left voice messages afterwards and received no response. My husband actually said on the message that he wanted to talk to his boss, and he didn’t think it is ok to accuse me of lying with all proof that is out there.

I can’t see how that can be possibly be my fault. I contacted customer service and no one owned that behavior either.

It seems it is what one should expect now then from shopping in such place. It is shocking.

 

[Lessons]

I already asked if there could be any other arrangement because I don’t want to go to the store

This is insane. Is this the Hermes experience? Being afraid? Win a bag and lose your mental health.

No one deserves this. You can buy two bag in the resell market in the same day. Come on…that is what I call real power.

 

[A1aGypsy]

I don’t think it is your fault.

Hermes has discovered a new client model that is the opposite of the client is always right or fawning over the client. It prioritizes the corporation and has established this arbitrary system which places the “power” in the hands of the SA. And such a system can lead to bad behaviour in some circumstances.

The challenge is that you want justice and Hermes has clearly demonstrated that they aren’t going to give it to you.

You are absolutely right with your comment that this is what people should expect. They have shown that. Stewing over their lack of response is only going to eat up your sanity. Why waste your valuable time sparring with these people?

 

[Angiebbb]

I don’t think it is your fault.

Hermes has discovered a new client model that is the opposite of the client is always right or fawning over the client. It prioritizes the corporation and has established this arbitrary system which places the “power” in the hands of the SA. And such a system can lead to bad behaviour in some circumstances.

The challenge is that you want justice and Hermes has clearly demonstrated that they aren’t going to give it to you.

You are absolutely right with your comment that this is what people should expect. They have shown that. Stewing over their lack of response is only going to eat up your sanity. Why waste your valuable time sparring with these people?

It is fine they don’t respond, there is so much in writing and in voice messages that it would be really strange if they don’t deliver this or an alternate bag. I also know people from “the circle” very well, and a few said they will ask for updates next time they pass by during the summer.

Let them take their time and “inform themselves.”

 

[Angiebbb]

I think many are missing the point that is not about the bag. It is about bringing awareness that there are situations happening out there that are not ok, because people might run into exact the same problem, or a similar one.

I will not change the system, yes, I know that very well.

However, it might make it a little better for the next person, and if that happens, all the effort was already worth it.

Maybe this SA will not make people travel again there for nothing, and will think twice before doing bait/switch. Maybe the manager will not make the statements he made again after a barrage of proof. Maybe they will start checking all SOs when they come in, since they had two defective bags back to back, and people won’t lose their trip to the store.

Maybe someone here has a SO to pick up abroad or far away and will ask the SA to check the bag first. Now the person might expect confirmation from the SA, and save a trip if bag is defective, and the person won’t just take the SA’s word that he/she will check.

Any good progress that is made in their internal practices is already a bonus. The beauty of that it will benefit others.

I got lots of private messages of support. I’ve received many messages in the past months. Some people had similar experiences, or way way worse, and are afraid of posting here because they don’t want to be attacked or shamed.

What can everyone learn from that? That it doesn’t cost you anything to be KIND. It also brings you good karma.

I have many friends, family etc. that I can tell everything that happens. I am also so lucky that I made friends here. ❤️

Many people don’t, and they feel good about posting anonymously what happened to them, it makes them feel better and they would appreciate any support they can get. If they are shamed and blamed, they won’t do it anymore.

If something didn’t happen to you, it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen to others. Take people’s word for what it is, and for how they perceive their experience. The purpose is to help, not attack, call people narcissistic or inept, shame people for their experience. People that have the education and experience to make those calls would not make such “diagnosis” here, and would be committing malpractice if they did.

The more we attack and shame people in all areas of life, the less people will come forward, and what is wrong will continue to be wrong, be put under the rug and the behavior will continue to be normalized.

Again, it is not about a bag. I can very well transfer money and get a similar bag today or tomorrow. But if my experiences and callouts can help deter poor/unethical/negligent behavior in the future in any situation, it is already worth it for me.

 

[OnlyModa]

All of the above mentioned reasons are the benefits of getting the bag in store but one needs to pay for it + understands the uncertainty around whether you may or may not get the bag. So a shopper who has decided to go to the store route should have understood these points clearly and be ready for these costs - cant blame anyone for the costs they have to go through. Obviously H practice is not noble but they are a firm trying to maximize their profits and are not forcing anyone to do what they want their clients to do. Whatever promises SA makes, when there is no paper trace, the promises are cheap talk.

All this is to say that we make our own choices and each comes with pros and cons, not always obvious that one dominates others and if a choice is not working, maybe its time to find a different one.

What would you say to someone who just decides to shop in the store. No research, no “understanding”. You walk into a store, you are told a bag will come in time and you shop. You believe what the SA tells you- why would you not? I understand our protagonist here knows the drill but in general there seem to be some level of victim blaming