Lost PP SNAD chargeback, buyer kept item AND money, now what?

forumpursefan

Member
Feb 17, 2017
35
20
I sold a Gucci item. Buyer had a case of buyer's remorse and wanted to return with SNAD as an excuse (no return policy). I won the eBay SNAD case but lost the subsequent PP CC chargeback. The buyer's bank let her keep the item for free. PP said the bank's decision was final and won't help me further. Now I'm out of the item and with a negative PP balance from the chargeback. What recourse do I have to recover the cost of the lost item? The item in question costs ~ $700. Thanks!
 

tafleischer

Member
Feb 10, 2016
126
157
I'm in the exact, literally, same boat over an authentic LV damier pochette, she wanted a return + 60 days After purchase[emoji48]. Im so angry i refuse to pay pay pal negative balance for chargeback and now I've received a collection letter plus fees on top of the item chargeback so I'm assuming this is ding on my credit. I am so angry, it's flat out theft. I swear i want to file a complaint with a federal authority, maybe banking regulators?
 

tafleischer

Member
Feb 10, 2016
126
157
No wonder every seasoned seller says you have to take return no matter what and save the headache if you want to see your item again.
Agreed, i even sent the receipt to pay pal and won the dispute. Why can't pay pal just advise us to accept the return? Even though in my case i know she carried it for her wedding and wanted to return after using it [emoji34]. I'm so done with eBay and pay pal
 

forumpursefan

Member
Feb 17, 2017
35
20
Are you doing anything to recover the cost of the item? I've heard you can sue the buyer or even PP through small claims court but I'm not sure if it's a hopeless battle.
 
Oct 31, 2011
465
279
What was the reason for the SNAD?
What kind of chargeback was it? Unauthorized use? The reason I ask is that I believe even credit cards require the item to be returned for not as described claims before giving back the money (at least this has been my personal experience), although not for small sums ($700 is not).

Depending on what kind of chargeback the buyer opened, you may be covered by Paypal seller protection (but you will have to fight for it). You can also file various reports of theft and mail fraud against the buyer (with USPS, their local PD and IC3) as well as against Paypal with BBB and CA AG.
 

forumpursefan

Member
Feb 17, 2017
35
20
What was the reason for the SNAD?
What kind of chargeback was it? Unauthorized use? The reason I ask is that I believe even credit cards require the item to be returned for not as described claims before giving back the money (at least this has been my personal experience), although not for small sums ($700 is not).

Depending on what kind of chargeback the buyer opened, you may be covered by Paypal seller protection (but you will have to fight for it). You can also file various reports of theft and mail fraud against the buyer (with USPS, their local PD and IC3) as well as against Paypal with BBB and CA AG.
The buyer was expecting a higher grade leather and used it as an excuse to force the return by saying I didn't give full disclosure, hence the SNAD.

PayPal seller protection is only good for INR or unauthorized use. It does not cover SNAD.
 

BeenBurned

Coach, Dooney, Uggs
Authenticator
O.G.
Feb 25, 2007
46,891
14,632
East Coast, USA
No wonder every seasoned seller says you have to take return no matter what and save the headache if you want to see your item again.
It's not that you "have to take a return" but it's a risk sellers run when they refuse a return. A seller who refuses a return is assumed to not want the item back so the buyer isn't told to send it back.

A better way for a seller to handle it is to offer to accept the return but have the buyer pay return shipping. it's a PITA but it's not as much of a loss and can be considered a cost of doing business.

When you received notice of the chargeback, did you respond to Paypal that the buyer may send it back?
PayPal seller protection is only good for INR or unauthorized use. It does not cover SNAD.
Sad but true.
 

forumpursefan

Member
Feb 17, 2017
35
20
When you received notice of the chargeback, did you respond to Paypal that the buyer may send it back?
I told PP I won the eBay SNAD case and did everything I can to prove everything was as described. Still the bank sided with the buyer. Is there anyway I can get the bank's information so I can let them know the buyer still has the item and she can't keep it AND the money?
 

BeenBurned

Coach, Dooney, Uggs
Authenticator
O.G.
Feb 25, 2007
46,891
14,632
East Coast, USA
Paypal is the middleman so you'd need to contact them, request that they respond to the dispute that you'll accept that the buyer won the chargeback but you want your item returned to you. Point out to them (PP) that the buyer now has a refund and the item.
 

forumpursefan

Member
Feb 17, 2017
35
20
Paypal is the middleman so you'd need to contact them, request that they respond to the dispute that you'll accept that the buyer won the chargeback but you want your item returned to you. Point out to them (PP) that the buyer now has a refund and the item.
I did that already but PP CSRs were unhelpful. They said the bank finalized the outcome of the dispute and there's nothing more they can do to help me. They even sent the buyer an email asking for the return of the item but so far no response. PP is officially off the hook and they said I need to go the legal route or through the authorities if I want to escalate further.
 
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forumpursefan

Member
Feb 17, 2017
35
20
It's not that you "have to take a return" but it's a risk sellers run when they refuse a return. A seller who refuses a return is assumed to not want the item back so the buyer isn't told to send it back.

A better way for a seller to handle it is to offer to accept the return but have the buyer pay return shipping. it's a PITA but it's not as much of a loss and can be considered a cost of doing business.
What happens when you take a return (new item) but the buyer doesn't pack well and the item arrives with dings and scratches all over or the item has clearly been used for the weekend?
 

BeenBurned

Coach, Dooney, Uggs
Authenticator
O.G.
Feb 25, 2007
46,891
14,632
East Coast, USA
I did that already but PP CSRs were unhelpful. They said the bank finalized the outcome of the dispute and there's nothing more they can do to help me. They even sent the buyer an email asking for the return of the item but so far no response. PP is officially off the hook and they said I need to go the legal route or through the authorities if I want to escalate further.
What states are you and your buyer in?

It's possible that the filing of a small claims lawsuit requiring her to respond might get her to settle and return your item. And if she doesn't respond, forcing her to go to court would result in an expense for her.