kinda annoyed- beware of rant.

[tsuzen]

is it just me or does anyone else feel that HH retail model is a little whack?

there are items of clothing on there from 3 seasons ago that have fluctuated in price over $100 in between sales. i know i have seen really really old pieces continue to return to the sale pages time and time again.a

there is no consistency in their markdowns and prices for items will go up and down wildly with no specific reason.

also, doesn't it slightly devalue the exclusivity of the brand that they refuse to "quietly retire" past seasons to another site? that they are still peddling several seasons past goods while asking a premium for their current season?

furthermore, there have been a few bags that they claimed were in a "limited edition" and i swear that they keep restocking it and saying the same thing in the listing. I freaked the VERY first time teh mosaique camera bag went on sale ("ltd ed. of 50"- PER MONTH) because i didn't want to miss out on getting it, not only did it seemingly never sell out, but it kept getting sold in the sample sale (there must've been a zillion samples).

I have already graced (or annoyed) the hallowed halls of TPF with my CS issues, the repairs on brand new bags etc...

yes i love sales. i love sample sales. I love a bargain, and most of all, I have loved Hayden Harnett for years. I own four lovely bags.

I have also managed retail stores, worked on teh production end and also do retail consulting for high end boutiques. It truly is an insult to your customers if you don't follow a established series of logical markdowns and then quietly eliminate your old stock at a certain point in time and either A.) sell it at an alternate venue or B.) sell it physically at your store location in a giant sidewalk sale or C.) send it Hong Kong from whence it came to grace the arms of underprivledged factory workers...
I dont know what the solution is, just dont tell me that the AFRA
Overprint Knit Tunic/Wrap Skirt that is now on sale for $77 is a fair price when I purchased that silly piece of clothing three sales ago for less than $20.

Do they think that their fans don't notice when an item on SALE for $275 goes BACK to full price even thoguh the new season is launched? WHo does that? And if they do- shouldn't they explain this weird version of pricing theory that they practice?

I know this seems petty, and I hate to be negative about a small company that i respect, admire and patronize, but it IS just a little insulting. Almost ever other HH fan has noticed the irregularities and I think that they should either produce their goods in more realistic quantities (a better balance between their PUSH & PULL production) which may in fact Raise the retail price of their goods, OR just follow a decent markdown schematic and add an "OUTLET" section to their site for several-season past merchandise...

Thats it I'm done. I will not go on further about this poitn. I would love to hear the comments of other HH ladies, but phew...

HH Wish list:
Ibiza Convertible Flight Bag in Khaki
Sao Paulo Artisan Hobo Rosso
Gemma Field Tote Black

Thanks for hearing me out ladies.

 

[leothelnss]

It is kinda wierd, but I think it works for some people. After seeing something on sale but not knowing if they should get it or not, and then it disappears, and THEN they realize the loved it and they buy it.
Something like that...

 

[tonij2000]

HH does have crazy sales with no apparent rhyme or reason but I love those unpredictable sales!

I don't buy into the "devaluing the brand" train of thought...I buy what I like regardless of the general population's perception or knowledge of whatever brand.

I also don't believe that they owe me an explanation of their sale practices...

 

[tonij2000]

It is kinda wierd, but I think it works for some people. After seeing something on sale but not knowing if they should get it or not, and then it disappears, and THEN they realize the loved it and they buy it.
Something like that...

This happened with my Olive Havana... missed out the first time it went on sale, then, a few months later, I snagged her!

 

[dcblam]

tsuzen -
I can completely understand the points you have made in your thread...and the same thoughts have crossed my mind as well.

There is NO rhyme or reason for their sales which makes it interesting to the point of being comical (I tend to view things with a great sense of humor) BUT I do find it a bit crazy and questionable that they have items that are so O L D.......and have been up and down in price like a yo-yo on crack!!!

Get rid of the stuff - somehow......and the "guests that just won't leave" are the clothing and some of the accessories......Yvonne, Azul, Nora, Luna, AFRA and Veronica (DID U NOTICE THEY ARE CALLING THIS DISCO?) get a move on!!! They disappear for a bit - and before you know it - they're back.....! Go Get a Life!

I like the idea of an outlet section.....others do it.....why not try it????

It would be nice to see a "Sale" page pop up without this old stuff.

Now, all this is said with great affection for HH....they are one quirky company - but I still adore them :okay:

Bye - bye Erol (LOL!)

 

[sep]

The seemingly methodless madness of the HH sale doesn't bother me at all ...

I rather enjoy the random whimsical nature of their markdowns ... It keeps things interesting and keeps me checking their website almost daily...

It's nice to know that if by chance I can't buy something I love when it goes on sale... there is a good chance that I may be able to get it at a discount again in the future!

 

[treesrgreen]

Overprint Knit Tunic/Wrap Skirt that is now on sale for $77 is a fair price when I purchased that silly piece of clothing three sales ago for less than $20.

Well bags that I have bought in blow out sales have sold for at least twice the price used on ebay - so why is it such a bad thing for HH to re-raise the prices.

The thing that we shouldn't forget is that we are 'insiders'. I learnt about HH through Anthropogie - which took me to the HH website (which I loved but was out of my price range) - which to me to bargain hunting and tracking down on ebay (and I must admit I couldn't figure out where these people got the bags from to sell at 50% off prices) - and then one day by magic google I came across IndiaInk's big bang sale thread and it blew my world - I couldn't believe that with a special link I was able to get all of these amazing prices. I haven't been the same since. Most people only have access to limited HH sales prices (one's that few of here pull the trigger for).

Also, when I saw photos of the store in NY - which has such an eclectic feel with heaps of 'one- gorgeous things' - and models that go back seasons - almost like someone's wardrobe - it got me thinking that they probably aren't about - 'out with the old and in with the new'. I think that the sales are about reducing the stock - but they keep back a few of the items to add to the spread of the collection.

The way I look at is that $20 is a steal for the Afra - and $70 is a reasonable price for it. It is a great piece - unique, quality fabric and not 'fashion-based.' I imagine that I will have occasions to wear it for years to come. Also, for example, look at the discussion going around on this board at the moment about the Nico or the Inka. People still want them - and are still buying them on ebay for much more than HH sales prices - so why should HH not continue stocking them.

I think that what this should tell us is that these bags are good long-term buys and not fashion pieces.

If this is really the case I don't think that their retail model is whack - in fact I would applaud them for taking a different route than the profit-driven 'what in this season' fashion hype.

On another note - I do sometimes wonder what HH's 'business model' is. I mean from what I understand the typical model is that you grow a company from start-up to medium size - and then you bring in the investors and grow the company. You might lose ownership but you stand to make more cash/have a successful business.

But what if Toni and Ben are happy with just making handbags etc.? They don't want to take over the world - and as long as things keep ticking over they are happy. (BTW - has anyone else wondered if these sudden impromptu sales might be because they have some bills to pay at the end of the month???)

 

[Stormy Heart]

TSUZEN, in all fairness, why don't you direct your questions directly to Ben ? With 25 HH in my collection, I would not gripe about a single price paid, including those that went for less on HH website before OR after my purchases. The bags are worth more than other Designer's products in terms of quality, style and function to begin with.
IF there was a pre-determined pricing tier that everyone could anticipate, who would buy anything new ? Their styles do transcend trends !
HH has only been around 5 years and by all measures, doing very well.
Do you think they need a marketing consultant ?
The way HH operates in no way 'devalues the exclusivity of the brand', as you intimate, by 'refusing' to do things your way. In fact the opposite is true ~ as evidenced by the original values held into the secondary market. HH can be sold well after availability on their site, at full price or sometimes better, depending on demand. There is no company that can predict popularity of a given item with precision. HH probably sells out or overstocks like anyone else. It's only human.
Hits and misses are fickle. Toni's enthusiasm or Ben's stewardship may prevail;
ultimately we choose ----- whenever we find what we want and agree to the cost.
**Plus, the sales are always a hoot, no matter if we all scored or not. A win for one is a win for all. We share frustrations and laughs. Few companies can provide that !** I wouldn't change a thing about Hayden-Harnett.

PS TreesRGreen ~~ good points sweetie, especially re: EOM expenses !

 

[dcblam]

Hey trees & stormy.......

ah, I just luv this Forum....cuz everyone gets a chance to share their wisdom and you both brought up some great points that I didn't even think about but are examples of why I luv HH......fashionable but not trendy! Alas - that is why their pieces will work season to season. Duh.
AND you're right.....we are "insiders"...so much so, that there are times that I think we know more about their product/inventory than some newbies on their staff!! LOL.

They are a small-ish company (considering their competition) and the EOM considerations are so valid and hopefully, they will continue to do what they love. It's interesting to see them go forward and expand with accessories, clothing, shoes and who knows what's next.

 

[treesrgreen]

tsuzen

This had turned a bit into a one-sided discussion - and it is an interesting point you raise. (Personally I WANT WANT NEED HH to bring back the Barnard Persian Rose to the sale before last price! Grhhhhhgggggg).

I'd love to hear your reaction to the above comments!

 

[mlinky]

I just accept it as quirky. I am into fashion for the long-haul, not to have the newest and latest, although with HH it sometimes seems like they are about 2 seasons ahead of the trends. I love all of my HH bags, enjoy the sales, and don't regret a single purchase. My only "business" complaint was with the customer service issues that some of my fellow TPFers dealt with, and, thankfully, they seem to now have that under control.

 

[avp]

tsuzen I actually tend to agree with you that from a purely theoretical business perspective they don't seem to follow a traditional markdown strategy. (I'm not terribly frustrated by this myself, but I definitely see what you mean.) Time will tell whether this will effect them in terms of sales, but as evidenced by the discussion above, it is clear that the format is largely successful in terms of customer satisfaction.

I have noticed other online sites that have followed this same markdown strategy--J Crew for example has posted all past season merchandise on the same sale page. They tend to continue to mark down merchandise rather than raise the prices after the sale. On the other hand, when I used to work for a tiny boutique, we frequently took merchandise off sale and lowered the retail price to re-sell them. Ultimately, we just needed to move product and we did not have an outlet option. This seems to be the case with many smaller retailers. Perhaps HH is just growing out of this model? We'll see.

I'm interested as well in hearing your response to this discussion. Your business background provides an insightful perspective on retail practice.

PS I think an outlet page is a fantastic idea.

 

[tsuzen]

Hi ladies! I got wrapped up in working form home, yoga and house chores this morning and just realized that i needed to follow my own thread!

I hardly ever buy current season clothing.. not just for financial reasons, i just prefer to think of myself as the type of gal who thinks objectively of her wardrobe as a whole (gestalt theory if you will- LOL) and see adding new pieces as building blocks to a total look.

You ladies have definitely made me see myself a lot less seriously about this issue!!!

I would love to see an outlet page, but maybe just to re-define themselves away from other designers, they have past season called "classics" or is maybe some styles make it into a "hall of fame" or something similar so you know which new styles will stick around for a while and which ones are going to be at "havana status"

Maybe I need to examine why I need Hayden Harnett to be predictable, or why they should follow the same model as other designers. I guess its because I seem them growing, and selling in Anthropologie, and designing for Target, and maybe just need to show a moving forward...and yes- WHY should they behave like everyone else... but I certainly don't!

Also, because i respect them both immensely and love the fact that they innovate and want to see what else they design, what new palletes and leather finishes they will present each season...

AND yes, i sometimes wonder if they throw a sale to pay some end of month bills..

maybe that is why we all love HH. their company seems incredibly human.

and my afra is only silly because i have owned it for months and still have not figured out what or how to wear it with...

I dont feel like this response is making any sense. I am really happy that i have learned so many new ways of thinking about things from your responses... Since they don't follow the same business models as everyone else why not break the mold and offer a few new pieces at odd times of the year?

I am glad that I got everything off my chest yesterday, I am kinda over it.
Im looking forward to the next big sale.

Thanks ladies, the fact that we could all exchange ideas and thoughts shows me again how grateful I am for TPF!

 

[K.Z.]

Interesting discussion! Maybe the way HH does things helps keep prices down, and if it were to follow other designers' marketing and selling models, handbag prices would go up. I think that given the quality and look of HH bags, they're a bit underprized compared with competing brands. Just my two cents!

 

[hokka]

i agree that there doesn't seem to be a very logical reason behind the way they put things on sale (or, don't put things on sale)... it does mean, however, that usually i can get a pretty decent price on whatever it is that i'm looking for (or not looking for). i agree i can run the chance of knowing that it was a lower price earlier or later, but being that most of their sale prices are substantial discounts as it is, i figure i have to be happy with what i'm buying it for - or else i wouldn't buy it!

an outlet page would be awesome, though. the word "outlet" is, i think, one of my favorites