If an item is not authentic, does that qualify as SNAD?

Carolina59

Carolina59

Member
Jan 3, 2008
692
0
#1
If an item is not authentic, does that qualify as SNAD? I have asked the seller for a refund and she is giving me a hard time.

This is a somewhat high-end designer item of clothing. I have screen shots of her listing photos as well as the actual item from the manufacturer's website. They do not match at all. The seller's listing headline advertised it as the specifically named fabric print of the designer. ("Equipment Micah print shirt")

I had tried the shirt on at Nordstrom's early last spring, so I knew how it fit, but I didn't remember the specific pattern of the print as clearly, so I accepted the listing headline and the photos at face value and didn't compare to the designer website (never again will I be remiss). When I received the shirt it didn't fit as I remembered, but it took me a while to figure out that it was not the same shirt at all, and I believe it is a fake.

Here is a link to a photo of the authentic shirt:
http://www.equipmentfr.com/micah-print-mix

She also took the sale off ebay because I offered her a lower price than the buy it now price (I know, I know...so foolish), so any dispute will have to be through paypal and not ebay. Her listing says no returns, but she also guarantees authenticity. Does the authenticity guarantee supersede the no return policy?

I have been so good about authenticating bags here, but it never occurred to me to authenticate a shirt. And I have never bought off ebay before either. Ugh.

TIA for reading this far and for any advice. :flowers:
 
#2
I would file a snad but I try to talk to the seller first and see if she will work with you. But before you do anything I would try to get some form of an authentication done on the item because pay pal might require one for you to win the case.
 
#3
Thank you. I am trying to work with the seller, but she is not very cooperative. There is not an Equipment store anywhere near where I live. Where would I have this authenticated? I'm not sure a department store would do it, since the shirt is sold out. Although they could compare it to the Equipment website photos just as I have, I suppose?
 
#4
Not to add salt to the wound since so seller should be selling fakes, this is another example of buyers and sellers trying to save a buck and losing a huge chunk of the protection they'd have if they'd kept the transaction on ebay.
 
#5
Carolina59 said:
Thank you. I am trying to work with the seller, but she is not very cooperative. There is not an Equipment store anywhere near where I live. Where would I have this authenticated? I'm not sure a department store would do it, since the shirt is sold out. Although they could compare it to the Equipment website photos just as I have, I suppose?
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Paypal will not likely need to consider any details in the original listing, as it doesn't apply, it was a separate side sale. However Paypal should accept you as saying you received the shirt you purchased and it's a counterfeit. That seller isn't being cooperative. You can then offer the photo of the actual shirt and a photo off the legitimate website to show they are not the same. And just file the Paypal SNAD claim with that. The claim will put the $ on hold so do it right away... I would just say it was a private sale, no sale link available. Paypal is pretty good about protecting buyers without much proof. As long as you have the item to return to the seller. You also have your CC if you used one, as backup protection if Paypal for some reason drops the ball for you. Good luck!
 
#6
BeenBurned said:
Not to add salt to the wound since so seller should be selling fakes, this is another example of buyers and sellers trying to save a buck and losing a huge chunk of the protection they'd have if they'd kept the transaction on ebay.
Click to expand...

You are so right. When I asked her if she would accept a lower price (only $10 less than asking), I thought she would change the buy-it-now price so that I could purchase it on ebay. She suggested that I pay her through paypal and to send her my email address. When I tried to send her my email through ebay message, it wouldn't go through to her. I asked her if this meant it was going off ebay, and she didn't address that issue, but managed to get her email address to me. I do have a paper trail.

She has sold over 800 items on ebay. I have bought just over 20 items in the 8 years I've been a member, and I have never sold anything. I so regret my naivete.
 
#7
lshcat said:
Paypal will not likely need to consider any details in the original listing, as it doesn't apply, it was a separate side sale. However Paypal should accept you as saying you received the shirt you purchased and it's a counterfeit. That seller isn't being cooperative. You can then offer the photo of the actual shirt and a photo off the legitimate website to show they are not the same. And just file the Paypal SNAD claim with that. The claim will put the $ on hold so do it right away... I would just say it was a private sale, no sale link available. Paypal is pretty good about protecting buyers without much proof. As long as you have the item to return to the seller. You also have your CC if you used one, as backup protection if Paypal for some reason drops the ball for you. Good luck!
Click to expand...

Thank you for your advice. I am still hoping the seller may refund my money, but I am not hopeful.
 
#8
Paypal invariably request proof of the item being authentic and you telling them to compare your pictures to the manufacturer website will not suffice unfortunately. They will request evidence from the manufacturer or a reputable independent service (sorry, I have no idea what that would entail in this instance - there are many services for things such as Chanel etc).

Why do you believe it is counterfeit? All I'm reading is that the fit is different on you from several months ago and the print is different. Is it possible that the seller has misidentified the print? Not doubting you - just playing devil's advocate as you will need all your ducks in a row to win a PP claim.
 
#10
I helped a friend with a received fake item before, non-helpful seller, she had to open a claim, and she did NOT have to prove non-authenticity at all before winning the claim. Just got an e-mail she forwarded me w/ the decision from Paypal about "sometimes things don't go as expected" and they strive to get everyone back to their pre-transaction starting point blah blah.. :smile: something like that, She had to return it while the seller's funds were frozen. This was within the past 6 months or so. So I'm not sure why some people have the experience that Paypal demands proof of inauthenticity and others just get the claim expedited and told to return the goods w/out further hassles. Granted I think this was a very new seller my friend was dealing with, maybe that's why. But I hope this seller allows the refund for your sake to save any trouble.

Without seeing the listing or the seller's reputation I'm guessing there could be other "zebra print" shirts from the manufacturer, and different years might fit differently, I don't know much about it :smile: but I guess if you can, it would be helpful/more fair to authenticate this now somehow anyway. In case this becomes more complicated, or on the flip side if it is authentic, you can then resell it in good faith. Good luck OP!
 
#11
lshcat said:
I helped a friend with a received fake item before, non-helpful seller, she had to open a claim, and she did NOT have to prove non-authenticity at all before winning the claim.
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That's interesting. I wonder why they made that decision?

I've received a couple of counterfeits over the years, generally through sellers using pictures of authentic items and then sending fakes. PP have always asked me to provide an independent verificiation of my claim of the item being counterfeit.

There are a number of threads on this forum where that proof has also been requested so I suspect that requiring proof is the "norm" for PP claims anyway.

Did your friend dispute with PP or eBay?
 
#12
vernis-lover said:
That's interesting. I wonder why they made that decision?

I've received a couple of counterfeits over the years, generally through sellers using pictures of authentic items and then sending fakes. PP have always asked me to provide an independent verificiation of my claim of the item being counterfeit.

There are a number of threads on this forum where that proof has also been requested so I suspect that requiring proof is the "norm" for PP claims anyway.

Did your friend dispute with PP or eBay?
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I wonder too, if it was because it was a new seller or maybe just because it wasn't an eBay seller, that Paypal was so much easier to work with for her. (Paypal claim, and a Bonanza sale.) Since this wasn't technically an eBay sale for the OP maybe it will close in her favor with a returned item, lickety split! ? :smile:
 
#13
Hi all,
Thanks so much for your input on this. It's very helpful. I received a msg. from seller this morning saying she doesn't sell fakes; it's not her fault I didn't review the listing carefully, etc. BUT she will accept the return with a 20% "restocking fee."

Even though I think a restocking fee (so she can hang it back in her closet) is bs, it's worth it to avoid the hassle of a PP claim. Lesson learned.

Now, about the return. Do I need a signature confirmation or just a tracking number? How do I ensure that there isn't a claim that she received an empty box or damaged item back? I have taken photos of the shirt. I suppose I can take a photo of the shirt in the box at the P.O.--any other ideas?

Thanks again for the advice.
 
#14
Carolina59 said:
Hi all,
Thanks so much for your input on this. It's very helpful. I received a msg. from seller this morning saying she doesn't sell fakes; it's not her fault I didn't review the listing carefully, etc. BUT she will accept the return with a 20% "restocking fee."

Even though I think a restocking fee (so she can hang it back in her closet) is bs, it's worth it to avoid the hassle of a PP claim. Lesson learned.

Now, about the return. Do I need a signature confirmation or just a tracking number? How do I ensure that there isn't a claim that she received an empty box or damaged item back? I have taken photos of the shirt. I suppose I can take a photo of the shirt in the box at the P.O.--any other ideas?

Thanks again for the advice.
Click to expand...

I don't think there is anything you can do to avoid such a claim in all honesty.

As for tracking or SC, I'd always use SC for peace of mind but I think the "official" rule is it depends on the value of the item. Read up on PP's policies so you can be sure of their requirement, just incase you need to raise this to a claim after you have returned it.
 
#15
vernis-lover said:
I don't think there is anything you can do to avoid such a claim in all honesty.

As for tracking or SC, I'd always use SC for peace of mind but I think the "official" rule is it depends on the value of the item. Read up on PP's policies so you can be sure of their requirement, just incase you need to raise this to a claim after you have returned it.
Click to expand...

Thank you. According to PP, I only need tracking, but will probably do SC anyway. I am losing money on this deal anyway, lol. I have not disputed this on PP; I wonder if I should so that if there's a problem I will have time to raise it to a claim?
 
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