How do I flatten my big robust face?

[iasked]

Just realized I've been trying to make my face "sharper" but in the wrong way.

Cuz if you look at this diagram https:, Asian faces are NOT flat but actually so "robust" in the cheekbone area, the bones protruding forward so much that it creates the illusion of a "flat" face because the facial terrain has been raised so the side profile looks flat (no curves to differentiate nose, cheek, jaw area) and the front view looks full, round, wide.

So now my question is, how do I "flatten" the front and side so that it makes the face more contoured, slimmer, more 3D.

If you watch the diagram in motion, Asian faces feels like it's been puffed up or blown up like a balloon so it loses the contours and shapes as opposed to the white face which is actually flat in the malar/zygomatic cheekbone area and showcases depth and contour. You can see in the Asian skull the cheekbones are so huge it eats into the eye socket space (ok not really I don't know the right way to describe how the eye sockets seem smaller in comparison)

Aside from zygoma reduction (side) what can be done to make the frontal cheekbone more "flat" or less blownup/puffy looking and make the eyes look deeper/pushed in to create the appearance of a more 3D profile. My cheekbones don't stick out much though, I just have an overall huge, big, broad, robust asian skull.

To give a visual example, my face is the east asian version of the pic below.....as you can see her cheekbones are robust and raised, eating into her profile view and partly obscuring the view of her nose...so it gives her a flat appearance cuz there's no definition of where the side starts and where her front is.

I'd like to achieve forward face growth with a 3 piece lefort 1 - however I'm not sure I want to pull my cheekbones forward anymore than they already are. I want to achieve the "flat" cheekbone side profile view. I'm not sure if the 3p lf1 will pull your face forward to be more cat like/fish like (funneling forward with the nose as center piece) or it just pulls everything forward but there's no harmony to it...I hope somebody on here understands what I'm trying to get at.



I have this exact face, but make it broader, wider, flatter with a bigger forehead to boot and print it in east asian lmao.

This is the side profile I want. As you can see, her cheekbones are "flat" not rounded and raised like the pic above. Her face is also VERY VERY FORWARD grown which is my goal but I need to know what to do with my damn raised big ass cheekbones getting in the way. Also do you notice she has more space from eye to ear in pic 2, as opposed to pic 1 where space from eye to ear is minimal. PLEASE list all the surgeries I need to do to go from pic 1 to pic 2, I'm dedicated to the cause!!! Even a pale imitation is fine, I know I won't achieve this look 100% but I'll be happy to look something like this.

 

[lill_canele]

In all honestly, please consult a board certified plastic surgeon who is able to evaluate you in person and have a discussion with you on what you want and what options he or she recommends for you.

A professional opinion from an expert in the field who is able to actually see you and understand what you want is preferred. Especially when we all have different beauty standards, biases, and interpretations.

 

[K Couture]

It depends what your issue is. If your cheekbones are protuding to sides and to the front (45 degree) it can be cut and rotated and pushed back by a few mm, giving you a softer appearance. It will NEVER make your face more defined however. This procedure is aimed at giving your face a smaller and more balanced look, but never will give you definition. In fact, it does so by removing stronger bone structure to give a more smooth appearance. As to whether it can give you a more 3d look, that won't happen either. A flat face is a mixture of bone structure, soft tissue and how your connective muscles and tissues adhere in conjunction of the bone structure.

I explain it in detail here https://forum.purseblog.com/threads...good-candidate-for-facial-contouring.1049765/
The thing which caucasian faces which asian faces lack, is bone depth. Often surgeons will recommend implants or fat grafting but because of how thick asian tissues are, this ends up giving a more filled appearance rather than definition you see in for example, natalie portman, because all those procedures does is push the soft tissues forward, soft tissues which do not have the same connectivity between the muscle and bone structure which caucasians do.

 

[tweedledee]

Zygoma reduction, rhinoplasty with a raised bridge, moving the chin and jaw forward. However, zygoma works best if it's the cheekbones which protrude and not your skull behind the cheekbones.

I had double jaw surgery which added tons of forward growth. Recovery was about 2 years. It's a big decision.

 

[iasked]

Zygoma reduction, rhinoplasty with a raised bridge, moving the chin and jaw forward. However, zygoma works best if it's the cheekbones which protrude and not your skull behind the cheekbones.

I had double jaw surgery which added tons of forward growth. Recovery was about 2 years. It's a big decision.

How do you check if it's your cheekbones or your skulls that's protruding? I suspect mine is the skull overall.

I do want cheekbone definition - but low cheekbones that sit near the nose/below the eye and not high cheekbones that protrude laterally.

Also, for double jaw, since the forehead and eye area is not being pushed out, does pushing the mandible and lower maxilla out create "chimp" face effect?

 

[iasked]

It depends what your issue is. If your cheekbones are protuding to sides and to the front (45 degree) it can be cut and rotated and pushed back by a few mm, giving you a softer appearance. It will NEVER make your face more defined however. This procedure is aimed at giving your face a smaller and more balanced look, but never will give you definition. In fact, it does so by removing stronger bone structure to give a more smooth appearance. As to whether it can give you a more 3d look, that won't happen either. A flat face is a mixture of bone structure, soft tissue and how your connective muscles and tissues adhere in conjunction of the bone structure.

I explain it in detail here https://forum.purseblog.com/threads...good-candidate-for-facial-contouring.1049765/
The thing which caucasian faces which asian faces lack, is bone depth. Often surgeons will recommend implants or fat grafting but because of how thick asian tissues are, this ends up giving a more filled appearance rather than definition you see in for example, natalie portman, because all those procedures does is push the soft tissues forward, soft tissues which do not have the same connectivity between the muscle and bone structure which caucasians do.

Thanks for the link - very insightful. What exactly is bone depth? Is it thickness of the bone? Is it how "sunken" a skull appears? Because the sunken skull with the flat cheekbones looks better than the volominous Asian face that ends up looking fat/flat/boxy or just round.

More importantly, is there anything I can do to solve this issue? Add more bone depth? Reduce bone depth? I'll do any surgery to have Natalie Portman's profile view.

You mention in the linked thread that it's not possible to create frontal projection to the jaw - only to the side........but is that not what double jaw surgery + genioplasty does? Would a 3 piece le fort 1 not help in this case? I only want to move mandible and maxilla a few mms anyway.....are you saying this will cause my face to look more "boxy/bloated/big" or am I missing something entirely? I want to narrow down my entire skull and make the nose the "focal point" where all the features are in line with the forehead, nasal, chin point from profile view and not the pancake blob it is now.

If you have the time, do you mind sharing visual examples of bone depth is on different skulls?

Having said that, I've never seen an Asian transform from big boxy face to narrow sculpted forward projection face, idk maybe China has more drastic examples? They shave the cheekbones but the side view remains flat .....and that's my main issue here. I want a sculpted, more defined profile.

 

[K Couture]

No I said i

Thanks for the link - very insightful. What exactly is bone depth? Is it thickness of the bone? Is it how "sunken" a skull appears? Because the sunken skull with the flat cheekbones looks better than the volominous Asian face that ends up looking fat/flat/boxy or just round.

More importantly, is there anything I can do to solve this issue? Add more bone depth? Reduce bone depth? I'll do any surgery to have Natalie Portman's profile view.

You mention in the linked thread that it's not possible to create frontal projection to the jaw - only to the side........but is that not what double jaw surgery + genioplasty does? Would a 3 piece le fort 1 not help in this case? I only want to move mandible and maxilla a few mms anyway.....are you saying this will cause my face to look more "boxy/bloated/big" or am I missing something entirely? I want to narrow down my entire skull and make the nose the "focal point" where all the features are in line with the forehead, nasal, chin point from profile view and not the pancake blob it is now.

If you have the time, do you mind sharing visual examples of bone depth is on different skulls?

Having said that, I've never seen an Asian transform from big boxy face to narrow sculpted forward projection face, idk maybe China has more drastic examples? They shave the cheekbones but the side view remains flat .....and that's my main issue here. I want a sculpted, more defined profile.

No its not the thickness of the bone. Its like the dimensions of a suitcase for example, length x width x height. The height here being the bone depth, that is what gives the face the dimensional look. East asians tend to have more width and lacking depth, hence why flat faces are very common amongst east asians. Another thing you need to take into consideration too when analysing the facial structure of east asians is that the tissue structure is different too. East asians have thicker skin, which also means more collagen, slower ageing process but more voluminous in appearance. Caucasians have thinner skin, which means less collagen which also means faster ageing but more defined faces. There's pros and cons to both.

I mentioned that its possible to reduce the WIDTH of the jaw IF you have protrusion at the mandible angle. Which is why Mandible Reduction is sometimes medically referred to as angle osteotomy. The jaw reduction surgery mainly alters the SHAPE and not the width unless you have protrusion. Width of the jaw tends to be a combination of muscle, soft tissue and bone (if protrusion exists). Back in the day surgeons would cut the muscles but these days its not advisable for 3 reasons. 1) muscle can grow back to a certain extent. 2) risk of cutting too much and/or nerve dmg which affects the bite 3) botox is very effective at reducing width by shrinking the muscle.
Two jaw surgery is actually a form of dental surgery and doesn't fall under the discipline of plastic surgery despite it producing cosmetic results. When you see patients undergo that procedure, its because they either have an underbite, an overbite or their upper and lower jaw are wonky and not properly alligned, thus affecting their bite. When its performed for an underbite for example, yes the jaw is extended which increases the depth BUT often the upper jaw is also moved backwards. For an overbite you will experience an increase in the depth but rather a reduction. Given the nature of this procedure, its actually rather unethical for a surgeon to agree to perform 2 jaw on a patient who has no bite issues simply for the purpose of gaining a bit of bone depth to the jaw, not to mention that if even if you were to increase your depth by elongating your jaw, it still has to be done in harmony with the rest of your cranial structure. Meaning your jaw cannot be lengthened so much that it goes beyond the point to which it causes balance to the depth of your cheekbones your forehead etc. This is precisely why increasing bone depth is humanly impossible, because its not just about increasing the depth on one component of your skull, it requires everything to be augmented forward. Not just the jaw, not just the cheekbones, not just the forhead, but everything. And even if that were to be somehow possible, it still doesnt mean you will get the natalie portman angular face if you have thick tissues and skin. You will just end up looking pushing your thick tissues and skin forward and thus looking more voluminous. Caucasians look the way they do because of the connectivity of how their muscle, soft tissue and bone applies itself to the facial structure. This is genetic and cannot be mimicked with plastic surgery.

The reason why you have never seen an asian with a boxy wide face transform into an angular caucasian type face is because its not possible. China does not have any examples because this is simply impossible. Long story short, going back to what i initially said. Facial contouring won't give you more definition. It actually makes you LOSE defintion. It does help balance your outer features more and smooth out your face and reduces width.

 

[iasked]

No I said i

No its not the thickness of the bone. Its like the dimensions of a suitcase for example, length x width x height. The height here being the bone depth, that is what gives the face the dimensional look. East asians tend to have more width and lacking depth, hence why flat faces are very common amongst east asians. Another thing you need to take into consideration too when analysing the facial structure of east asians is that the tissue structure is different too. East asians have thicker skin, which also means more collagen, slower ageing process but more voluminous in appearance. Caucasians have thinner skin, which means less collagen which also means faster ageing but more defined faces. There's pros and cons to both.

I mentioned that its possible to reduce the WIDTH of the jaw IF you have protrusion at the mandible angle. Which is why Mandible Reduction is sometimes medically referred to as angle osteotomy. The jaw reduction surgery mainly alters the SHAPE and not the width unless you have protrusion. Width of the jaw tends to be a combination of muscle, soft tissue and bone (if protrusion exists). Back in the day surgeons would cut the muscles but these days its not advisable for 3 reasons. 1) muscle can grow back to a certain extent. 2) risk of cutting too much and/or nerve dmg which affects the bite 3) botox is very effective at reducing width by shrinking the muscle.
Two jaw surgery is actually a form of dental surgery and doesn't fall under the discipline of plastic surgery despite it producing cosmetic results. When you see patients undergo that procedure, its because they either have an underbite, an overbite or their upper and lower jaw are wonky and not properly alligned, thus affecting their bite. When its performed for an underbite for example, yes the jaw is extended which increases the depth BUT often the upper jaw is also moved backwards. For an overbite you will experience an increase in the depth but rather a reduction. Given the nature of this procedure, its actually rather unethical for a surgeon to agree to perform 2 jaw on a patient who has no bite issues simply for the purpose of gaining a bit of bone depth to the jaw, not to mention that if even if you were to increase your depth by elongating your jaw, it still has to be done in harmony with the rest of your cranial structure. Meaning your jaw cannot be lengthened so much that it goes beyond the point to which it causes balance to the depth of your cheekbones your forehead etc. This is precisely why increasing bone depth is humanly impossible, because its not just about increasing the depth on one component of your skull, it requires everything to be augmented forward. Not just the jaw, not just the cheekbones, not just the forhead, but everything. And even if that were to be somehow possible, it still doesnt mean you will get the natalie portman angular face if you have thick tissues and skin. You will just end up looking pushing your thick tissues and skin forward and thus looking more voluminous. Caucasians look the way they do because of the connectivity of how their muscle, soft tissue and bone applies itself to the facial structure. This is genetic and cannot be mimicked with plastic surgery.

The reason why you have never seen an asian with a boxy wide face transform into an angular caucasian type face is because its not possible. China does not have any examples because this is simply impossible. Long story short, going back to what i initially said. Facial contouring won't give you more definition. It actually makes you LOSE defintion. It does help balance your outer features more and smooth out your face and reduces width.

So my face is just the female Asian version of this - big skull, thick skin, fatty face and I'd be happy if I achieved similar results - I'll say though my issue is my cheekbones obscure my eye area view unlike him so I'm going to shave that and push it in for a cleaner look. Also my jaw isn't recessed, at least not in relation to my current profile lol.

He did BSSO, le fort 1 and bone grafting I'd say that is a definite improvement. I've never seen this type of results with Korean surgeons tho. I'm not sure where the bone grafting went, probably top of his head at the back seems more rounded, but his face looks less bulky.

His face doesn't look terribly flat from side view but from the front it does have that flatness stereotypical of Asian faces.

 

[K Couture]

So my face is just the female Asian version of this - big skull, thick skin, fatty face and I'd be happy if I achieved similar results - I'll say though my issue is my cheekbones obscure my eye area view unlike him so I'm going to shave that and push it in for a cleaner look. Also my jaw isn't recessed, at least not in relation to my current profile lol.

He did BSSO, le fort 1 and bone grafting I'd say that is a definite improvement. I've never seen this type of results with Korean surgeons tho. I'm not sure where the bone grafting went, probably top of his head at the back seems more rounded, but his face looks less bulky.

His face doesn't look terribly flat from side view but from the front it does have that flatness stereotypical of Asian faces.

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ummm this guy actually has bone depth. His face wasnt even wide or flat. He actually had quite a small face even pre op. His skin isnt thick. He also isnt east asian. Im not sure what his ethnicity is but his features resembles more a caucasian. Nothing about him is a stereotypical asian face....He looks more to me like a hispanic man or even possibly south asian/indian man from northern india.

Youve never seen this type of results from korean surgeons because korean surgeons because the before and afters available are predominantly for east asian patients, who have completely different facial anatomy.

 

[tweedledee]

How do you check if it's your cheekbones or your skulls that's protruding? I suspect mine is the skull overall.

I do want cheekbone definition - but low cheekbones that sit near the nose/below the eye and not high cheekbones that protrude laterally.

Also, for double jaw, since the forehead and eye area is not being pushed out, does pushing the mandible and lower maxilla out create "chimp" face effect?

Look at your face and imagine the cheekbones are pushed in. Can you still see your skull bone (around your ears) is still big? Is your skull wider than your cheekbones? Or are your cheekbones wider than the bones behind it?

 

[iasked]

Look at your face and imagine the cheekbones are pushed in. Can you still see your skull bone (around your ears) is still big? Is your skull wider than your cheekbones? Or are your cheekbones wider than the bones behind it?

My cheekbones stick out 0.5mm from temples, around my eye/temple area it's wide (expanding laterally) giving my eyes a close set smushed together look. Is there a way to push the temple space backwards so they eye to cheekbone space doesn't look to wide. It's something like the photo below, including the terribly asymmetry and one cheekbone being more raised/prominent in front way also the eye more deepset than the other one.

 

[Linhmoon]

So my face is just the female Asian version of this - big skull, thick skin, fatty face and I'd be happy if I achieved similar results - I'll say though my issue is my cheekbones obscure my eye area view unlike him so I'm going to shave that and push it in for a cleaner look. Also my jaw isn't recessed, at least not in relation to my current profile lol.

He did BSSO, le fort 1 and bone grafting I'd say that is a definite improvement. I've never seen this type of results with Korean surgeons tho. I'm not sure where the bone grafting went, probably top of his head at the back seems more rounded, but his face looks less bulky.

His face doesn't look terribly flat from side view but from the front it does have that flatness stereotypical of Asian faces.

View attachment 5850305

View attachment 5850308

View attachment 5850309

I think this guy simply reached puberty and lost weight. Maybe he had sliding chin. I don't think he did any face contour. The before picture looks like Mexican to me.

 

[YoungJijii]

No I said i

No its not the thickness of the bone. Its like the dimensions of a suitcase for example, length x width x height. The height here being the bone depth, that is what gives the face the dimensional look. East asians tend to have more width and lacking depth, hence why flat faces are very common amongst east asians. Another thing you need to take into consideration too when analysing the facial structure of east asians is that the tissue structure is different too. East asians have thicker skin, which also means more collagen, slower ageing process but more voluminous in appearance. Caucasians have thinner skin, which means less collagen which also means faster ageing but more defined faces. There's pros and cons to both.

I mentioned that its possible to reduce the WIDTH of the jaw IF you have protrusion at the mandible angle. Which is why Mandible Reduction is sometimes medically referred to as angle osteotomy. The jaw reduction surgery mainly alters the SHAPE and not the width unless you have protrusion. Width of the jaw tends to be a combination of muscle, soft tissue and bone (if protrusion exists). Back in the day surgeons would cut the muscles but these days its not advisable for 3 reasons. 1) muscle can grow back to a certain extent. 2) risk of cutting too much and/or nerve dmg which affects the bite 3) botox is very effective at reducing width by shrinking the muscle.
Two jaw surgery is actually a form of dental surgery and doesn't fall under the discipline of plastic surgery despite it producing cosmetic results. When you see patients undergo that procedure, its because they either have an underbite, an overbite or their upper and lower jaw are wonky and not properly alligned, thus affecting their bite. When its performed for an underbite for example, yes the jaw is extended which increases the depth BUT often the upper jaw is also moved backwards. For an overbite you will experience an increase in the depth but rather a reduction. Given the nature of this procedure, its actually rather unethical for a surgeon to agree to perform 2 jaw on a patient who has no bite issues simply for the purpose of gaining a bit of bone depth to the jaw, not to mention that if even if you were to increase your depth by elongating your jaw, it still has to be done in harmony with the rest of your cranial structure. Meaning your jaw cannot be lengthened so much that it goes beyond the point to which it causes balance to the depth of your cheekbones your forehead etc. This is precisely why increasing bone depth is humanly impossible, because its not just about increasing the depth on one component of your skull, it requires everything to be augmented forward. Not just the jaw, not just the cheekbones, not just the forhead, but everything. And even if that were to be somehow possible, it still doesnt mean you will get the natalie portman angular face if you have thick tissues and skin. You will just end up looking pushing your thick tissues and skin forward and thus looking more voluminous. Caucasians look the way they do because of the connectivity of how their muscle, soft tissue and bone applies itself to the facial structure. This is genetic and cannot be mimicked with plastic surgery.

The reason why you have never seen an asian with a boxy wide face transform into an angular caucasian type face is because its not possible. China does not have any examples because this is simply impossible. Long story short, going back to what i initially said. Facial contouring won't give you more definition. It actually makes you LOSE defintion. It does help balance your outer features more and smooth out your face and reduces width.

So in that case, will a cortical osteotomy as a standalone procedure not really reduce anything? (I was thinking of doing that to minimize the amount of sagging while at least having a bit of the squareness of my face shaven off)

 

[dingbert]

did u end up getting anything done?

 

[facefi99999]

Also wondering if you got any surgeries done. Looking for any help to improve my face. Ty!