Hermes supply chain? Leather sources? Transparency?

[MaryAndDogs]

I"ve recently watched a DW documentary on youtube (documentary was actually French, filmed over two years but DW purchased the rights to it, "Luxury: Behind the mirror of high-end fashion")
about sourcing of leather for luxury brands.

Until now, I have always assumed that paying a premium assured that both people and animals involved are treated well and in ethical manner. After all, these companies can easily afford it. And it"s important to me that people have decent wages, safe working conditions and that animals have good quality of life. I haven"t been to any fast-fashion stores in 10 years. I thought that "made in France" or "made in Italy" actually meant something. I liked that there are strict labour laws protecting the workers. And I thought I was protecting that way of life with my purchases.

After watching the documentary and basically crying my eyes out for the last 10 minutes of it (rabbit farms in China...- don"t watch it before going to sleep!), I really tried to find out from where does Hermes get its leather but I am having difficulties following the entire supply chain.

Have any of you ladies (and gentleman!) had a chance to visit any of the tanneries? Could you maybe point me to any available sources regarding Hermes' supply chain? Where does the leather come from? How are the animals treated? How are the workers treated? Does Hermes provide protective gear for them, good work contracts? Does Hermes do any of it"s leather sourcing in China? Does anybody know?

Any info would be greatly appreciated!

 

[ladybug333]

I"ve recently watched a DW documentary on youtube (documentary was actually French, filmed over two years but DW purchased the rights to it, "Luxury: Behind the mirror of high-end fashion")
about sourcing of leather for luxury brands.

Until now, I have always assumed that paying a premium assured that both people and animals involved are treated well and in ethical manner. After all, these companies can easily afford it. And it"s important to me that people have decent wages, safe working conditions and that animals have good quality of life. I haven"t been to any fast-fashion stores in 10 years. I thought that "made in France" or "made in Italy" actually meant something. I liked that there are strict labour laws protecting the workers. And I thought I was protecting that way of life with my purchases.

After watching the documentary and basically crying my eyes out for the last 10 minutes of it (rabbit farms in China...- don"t watch it before going to sleep!), I really tried to find out from where does Hermes get its leather but I am having difficulties following the entire supply chain.

Have any of you ladies (and gentleman!) had a chance to visit any of the tanneries? Could you maybe point me to any available sources regarding Hermes' supply chain? Where does the leather come from? How are the animals treated? How are the workers treated? Does Hermes provide protective gear for them, good work contracts? Does Hermes do any of it"s leather sourcing in China? Does anybody know?

Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you for bringing light to this topic! I would love to know this too.

 

[Liberté]

I don't think you'll be able to figure out the full supply chain for everything, but there's quite a bit of information in the yearly financial report (link).

 

[MaryAndDogs]

I don't think you'll be able to figure out the full supply chain for everything, but there's quite a bit of information in the yearly financial report (link).

Thank you for posting this link! It"s a great source of info! I would really like to get to the bottom of this just for my own peace of mind. I guess, I am just looking for confirmation that everything is as I expect. In which case I don"t exactly understand the need to hide it.

 

[A1aGypsy]

All you have to do is google “Hermes” and “animal abuse” but I don’t think you are going to like what you see. PETA did an expose on Hermes crocodile farming two years or so ago that resulted in Jane Birkin demanding her name back. It ended up getting resolved because I’m sure their lawyers showed her the clause in the contract where she doesn’t own her name anymore and then Hermes claimed it was an irregularity in their supply chain.

But clearly they are not policing this sort of thing.

 

[ladysarah]

Actually if you buy crocodile (or exotics) or fur - the reality is very ugly. I stopped buying and using these things years ago. Even the Queen has stopped wearing real fur.
Leather is still just about viable but not sure how long for.

 

[Cavalier Girl]

I struggle with this often. I'm an ovo/lacto vegetarian and would love to be vegan, but I know I don't have the commitment it would require. Same goes for giving up leather. There is no "ethical" way to source meat and animal skins. Period. The dilemma is one of my personal demons.

 

[NateSelwyn25]

I struggle with this often. I'm an ovo/lacto vegetarian and would love to be vegan, but I know I don't have the commitment it would require. Same goes for giving up leather. There is no "ethical" way to source meat and animal skins. Period. The dilemma is one of my personal demons.

Leather is ultimately better for the environment than "vegan leather", which is just plastic. Unless the plan would be to stick with canvas and other plant-based fabrics, in which case my previous sentence is moot.

Any product involving animals that is produced on a mass scale(or if the material is considered exotic) is going to involve animal abuse. It's a strange myth that Chanel, Hermes and other high end brands are somehow ultimate examples of morality just because they charge several thousand times over the cost of their labor and materials. They're raping the environment and profiting from it just as badly as Coach and Michael Kors are.

 

[ladybug333]

I struggle with this often. I'm an ovo/lacto vegetarian and would love to be vegan, but I know I don't have the commitment it would require. Same goes for giving up leather. There is no "ethical" way to source meat and animal skins. Period. The dilemma is one of my personal demons.

Thank you for sharing this. I feel the same. I eat a largely plant-based diet and personally wouldn’t consider buying fur or exotic skins, but somehow I make an exception for leather. I feel the moral dilemma within me too.

Do you feel any better about buying second-hand bags? I know someone who is very vegan (in the sense that she talks about it often and it’s a big part of her life and beliefs), but she wears leather products if they’re from a second-hand store because the animal was killed to make the original item new, so the supply/demand of the leather doesn’t factor in as much of the item is used. I hope that makes sense? Basically, if you buy an item new, the company will know it should make more of that item. If you buy it used, the original company will have no idea, and thrift/consignment stores are just at the mercy of whatever people want to get rid of. Anyways, I do feel a bit better about buying used bags.

 

[Meta]

@MaryAndDogs Please read this thread: Hermès Tanneries.

 

[MaryAndDogs]

I have some exotic leather handbags and this is really forcing me to examine my own attitudes and beliefs. It's like I was in a fog...and I am only starting to see clearly.

Generally, if it already exist, I would not get rid of a leather item. In terms of sustainability and impact on the environment it is definitely better than the artificial leather. So maybe, the second hand approach is the way to go.

 

[ladybug333]

I have some exotic leather handbags and this is really forcing me to examine my own attitudes and beliefs. It's like I was in a fog...and I am only starting to see clearly.

Generally, if it already exist, I would not get rid of a leather item. In terms of sustainability and impact on the environment it is definitely better than the artificial leather. So maybe, the second hand approach is the way to go.

Love that. Thank you for starting this needed conversation and reminding us to be conscious consumers.

 

[xincinsin]

All you have to do is google “Hermes” and “animal abuse” but I don’t think you are going to like what you see. PETA did an expose on Hermes crocodile farming two years or so ago that resulted in Jane Birkin demanding her name back. It ended up getting resolved because I’m sure their lawyers showed her the clause in the contract where she doesn’t own her name anymore and then Hermes claimed it was an irregularity in their supply chain.

But clearly they are not policing this sort of thing.

How reliable is information from PETA? I've come across articles which claim that they can be quite extremist and often fudge their data to project false views.

 

[A1aGypsy]

How reliable is information from PETA? I've come across articles which claim that they can be quite extremist and often fudge their data to project false views.

I don’t know. I wasn’t referencing PETA. They only started the issue and then it turned into a lawsuit between Birkin and Hermes that resolved, in part, with Hermes admitting there were “irregularities” with one of their suppliers and pledging to have the supplier work out the issues to Jane Birkin’s satisfaction. The videos were horrific but clearly there was some true to it given their response.

 

[Liberté]

There is a lot of information out there outside of the financial reports, but especially when it comes to respecting labor regulations and working conditions, especially for sub-contractors, it's very difficult to find anything directly related to Hermes, which is why I only linked to the annual report. I don't think it's fair or informative to post information about an industry in general, when Hermes operates in a very limited space (relatively). I will say though, that it's a well known fact that (quick search in French news...) LVMH, Kering, Hermes and Chanel all use contractors to a great extent even for leather goods. Some of these are located in France, some in other countries. I wouldn't be too worried about labor conditions in France, but there are areas in Europe where the conditions are bad or there's a lack of control.
In some industries use of legal or semi-legal labor, employment of people in difficult situations (such as people who think they might be deported should they lose their jobs whether it's a reality or not) or human trafficking related issues are a significant issues. Italy sadly isn't known for being free of these issues, especially in industries such as textile and agriculture. We all know about the Chinese textile villages and for those of you who've seen the documentary, the exploitation of migrant workers.

There's a tendency to move jobs back to France the part few years and it's not really true that only the very lasts steps such as stamping on the brand name, are done on site in Europe, at least not for most of the part.
Here's a video from one of the contractors H and other luxury conglomerates use in the east of France which also is working with a high school for recruitment of workers.

Here's another video from the maroquineries du Puy where they're making H bags in the video.

I think that people tend to forget that wages aren't that high in many places in Europe when compared with minimum wages in the US. LVMH has factories in Romania, which is one example where the net salary after taxes would be about 300 USD, and the countries right outside of the EU but still in Europe, well, most of them have GDP per capitas that are far below China going by official statistics. Made in the EU can mean so many different things as the EU after all the expansions is less of a homogenous area than let's say the US or Canada.