Help! Going to court over fake bag! Need advice!

#76
charleston-mom said:
She probably doesn't care. This is a thief we're talking about. They generally don't worry about their credit and I doubt if she can get any credit extended to her, so she really wouldn't care in that situation. And if she doesn't care, there's just not really anything you can do. You can get a lien, but enforcing it is a whole 'nother ballpark. I saw a defendant in a case not long ago that had over 70 liens against him. He was basically judgment proof. You're entitled to keep your home, car, and other "living" assets. And if the person has a good attorney, they can get virtually everything they own protected unless they are independently wealthy (multiple cars, boats, etc.) which it doesn't sound like this is happening in this situation or they wouldn't be selling fake bags on craigslist. It's not like you can seize personal items from their home. The law protects debtors in those types of situations and unfortuantely since this is now civil, rather than criminal restitution, the debtor in a civil matter is protected by all of those laws. Not to mention, if they ever file bankruptcy, this debt would go right on it with all their others and would be completely discharged in bankruptcy.
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Actually in California, some companies can force the sale of a home to satisfy liens. Even a lowly homeowner's association can sell a $900k house for a $5k lien (even though the original "debt" was only a hundred dollars; they jack up the fees and costs). It can and does happen.

Wages can also be attached; not all is so "safe" in California if you have defaulted or defrauded someone.
 
#77
I'm very, very surprised that you were not awarded restitution ... however, I'm not familiar with victims' rights laws in CA.

Did you submit a restitution request to the ADA handling the case? Was there a victim witness advocate you were working with? Did the DA's Office talk to you about asking for restitution? Were you offered restitution?

Has she been sentenced, or did she just enter a plea?

For your small claims case, you need to go to the Clerk of Courts case and request (and likely pay for) a certified copy of the docket, judgement of conviction AND judgment roll. Attach those to your small claims request ... this is "issue preclusion," which essentially means she can't challenge the fact that she is guilty or liable, although she may be able to try to contest the amount of money you are asking for.
 
#78
Also--keep receipts for everything you pay for (filing fee, cost of certified documents for hte criminal case) ... you will likely be able to recover those costs as part of hte small claims action.
 
#79
tutushopper said:
If this person owns a house, and you get a lien on it, then they are unable to sell it without satisfying the liens first. It might take some time, but eventually the lien holder is paid.

While she may not care about her credit, since she is selling fakes on craigslist, do you think it likely she will hire an attorney to help defend her against liens and such? I highly doubt it given that she asked for a public defender in the criminal case.

Just keep looking into who she is, what she does, where she works (her wages can be garnished as well), where she banks (ditto), and don't give up before you start.
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I agree here.. be diligent about pursuing what you can..

Liens have to be satisfied and would go after her in any venue

that I could pursue.. workplace, bank, home, property car, etc...
 
#80
legaldiva said:
I'm very, very surprised that you were not awarded restitution ... however, I'm not familiar with victims' rights laws in CA.

Did you submit a restitution request to the ADA handling the case? Was there a victim witness advocate you were working with? Did the DA's Office talk to you about asking for restitution? Were you offered restitution?

Has she been sentenced, or did she just enter a plea?

For your small claims case, you need to go to the Clerk of Courts case and request (and likely pay for) a certified copy of the docket, judgement of conviction AND judgment roll. Attach those to your small claims request ... this is "issue preclusion," which essentially means she can't challenge the fact that she is guilty or liable, although she may be able to try to contest the amount of money you are asking for.
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More good advice...
 
#81
tutushopper said:
Actually in California, some companies can force the sale of a home to satisfy liens. Even a lowly homeowner's association can sell a $900k house for a $5k lien (even though the original "debt" was only a hundred dollars; they jack up the fees and costs). It can and does happen.

Wages can also be attached; not all is so "safe" in California if you have defaulted or defrauded someone.
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A homeowner's association has the legal right. That's very different than a regular civil creditor. Homeowner's associations can foreclose on any property in the US. But they are not going to force the sale and foreclosure of a home on an item sold on craigslist. That just isn't going to happen. They typically will not garnish someone's wages for a lien either. The government (state, federal and local) can and does, but typically you'd have to hire an attorney to try to enforce a lien by garnishment of wages or the like and it would be far more expensive than the value of the item used to defraud.

I agree - it's worth a try, but it's a real uphill battle. I think what's more likely to happen is that the lien will remain on this person's record until she decides to sell her home - if she owns one (she may be renting).
 
#82
Fwiw years ago we sued someone in small claims court and won... They used every tactic including hiding cars, changing jobs and evading the sheriff at every turn. We never were able to collect. Good luck but be prepared.
 
#83
My grandma said its really hard to have wages garnished but that seems like my only hope! Because she clearly doesnt care about her credit and I doubt she owns a house :sad:
 
#85
I wish you luck OP. I had to take someone to small claims court once (the value was over $7500, but knew attorneys would eat up the money if I went with regular court) and I won the full $7500, and collected. There is hope. Don't let the thought that it will be hard cause you to let it go. As I've said from the beginning; it's easy to get the judgement, but the hard part is the collection. That's why you need all the information about the other person you can find.
 
#86
tutushopper said:
I wish you luck OP. I had to take someone to small claims court once (the value was over $7500, but knew attorneys would eat up the money if I went with regular court) and I won the full $7500, and collected. There is hope. Don't let the thought that it will be hard cause you to let it go. As I've said from the beginning; it's easy to get the judgement, but the hard part is the collection. That's why you need all the information about the other person you can find.
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Agree here... OP you can do this just be diligent....
 
#87
charleston-mom said:
A homeowner's association has the legal right. That's very different than a regular civil creditor. Homeowner's associations can foreclose on any property in the US. But they are not going to force the sale and foreclosure of a home on an item sold on craigslist. That just isn't going to happen. They typically will not garnish someone's wages for a lien either. The government (state, federal and local) can and does, but typically you'd have to hire an attorney to try to enforce a lien by garnishment of wages or the like and it would be far more expensive than the value of the item used to defraud.

I agree - it's worth a try, but it's a real uphill battle. I think what's more likely to happen is that the lien will remain on this person's record until she decides to sell her home - if she owns one (she may be renting).
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Individual civil creditors can also put a lien on property in a case of an unsatisfied judgement.
 
#88
new.old.bag said:
Individual civil creditors can also put a lien on property in a case of an unsatisfied judgement.
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I never said they couldn't. I just said it's almost impossible to enforce unless it is at the time of sale. If they don't own the property, no lien on property/home, and even if they do own the home, it's unlikely any court would enforce the sale of a primary residence for a small lien. Debtors can file papers exempting their home from this type of seizure.

I don't believe there is any court that would force the sale of a primary residence to satisfy a small lien from a craigslist sale (even one as horrible as this one - where the person pled guilty basically to theft). It would of course have to be satisfied at the time of any future sale though. If someone tried to force the sale of a primary residence on this type of judgment or lien, the debtor would simply file papers exempting the home from seizure. I just can't understand why the D.A. didn't request restitution as part of the plea agreement. That absolutely should have been done.

This is why it is so difficult for creditors to get money from their judgments and our court system is so difficult and unjust sometimes. Liens and judgments are relatively easy to get and are filed all the time. Actually getting the money - that's a different thing altogether unfortunately. The case law is pretty straightforward in terms of primary residence, one vehicle, etc. and certain types of property as exempt from seizure. This is even true when a debtor is declaring bankruptcy. Each state has a vehicle by which the debtor can claim property as exempt from seizure and that bar is fairly high (i.e., a good attorney can pretty well safeguard virtually everything in a situation where someone is not fairly wealthy). The DA really dropped the ball on the prosecution of this one. The judge should have chimed in as well. He easily could have ordered restitution. Both the DA and the judge would have known the difficulty the OP is going to have in terms of enforcing a judgment. I'm so sorry OP! Keep trying though!
 
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