The problem is she bought it in mid September, so the 30 days return are over, she only noticed today when she wore her Burberry coat and wanted to buy a scarf that matches and the SA went "I am sorry but this is not an original" - she opened the return request, got a snotty comment from the seller and eBay closed it, since she paid with PP, she would be protected but then has to get the written statement, which I am not sure Burberry provides, with another authentication service, it is going to cost her again and she will already have to pay the return costs. What is the best way to handle it?
Friend bought a fake on eBay
- Thread starter Gabs007
- Start date
I think she should go through PayPal! If PayPal doesn’t help then through her credit card company.
Normally PayPal will ask her to return it for a full refund though, it just takes about 2weeks - 1 month for the case to be closed in my experience
Normally PayPal will ask her to return it for a full refund though, it just takes about 2weeks - 1 month for the case to be closed in my experience
But what does she have to claim? Not as described? Because I know if she claims fake she will have to have it authenticated and that will cost her more and she doesn't get that back
Unfortunately if your friend is going to open a dispute with Paypal for a SNAD or her credit card, in all likelihood
she will be asked to provide authentication from a third party.
Most design houses do not authenticate their merchandise & SA's usually don't volunteer that info
That's an out of pocket expense that your friend will have to absorb...
She can only decide if it is worth going through..
I thought if she says "not as described" and points out that there is no material label, that wouldn't be lying and she might still be able to return?
Because she actually isn't well off, she thought she had made a total bargain and was so proud so she wanted to buy a scarf (on the very lower end of their scale, I think Burberry Brit), she was totally in tears, the time it takes to authenticate and it will be around 50 she also has to eat up (I think she spent only 80 on the coat, which was what she had for a winter coat), she is now totally devastated, nurses in the UK don't earn a fortune.
Actually, she just rang and said the seller sent her a message about how she bought it for 2 in a charity shop, she should have asked before... Hopefully that will count?
It is upsetting as many of us work hard for our money & don't like being duped, but it happens
Your friend was trusting & unfortunately she got taken advantage of.. A costly lesson that many of us
have experienced no matter how much money we earn & how hard we work
Your friend can try to open a dispute with PP & take her chances that they may or may not ask for a
third party authentication but that is a chance she will have to take
Can you help her out in any way?
I did by asking this question here, sorry, but do I have a sign on my forehead that I am Miss Moneybags? You go on and on about she has to eat the costs of authentication, and how unfortunate and that it is a costly lesson and then suggest that I should "help out" by which I think you mean paying, you are very generous with my money
It is unfortunate that your friend has to deal with this but perhaps I should have been clearer.. meaning can you help
her out with the dispute since you posted
"If she says not as described & points out that there is no material label that wouldn't be lying & she
might still be able to return"
Was that your suggestion or hers?
Your friend was duped unfortunately & if she wants her 80 BSP back she will have to fight for it!!!
And if an authentication is requested that's what one has to go through when you claim a "fake item"...like it or not
no matter how much the item costs & what your financial situation is & it is not pleasant.
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Actually PP has no "fake" report button, so we went for not as described, first the message goes to the seller and I checked, you can actually report fakes to an organization, so we checked that out, then took a screenshot of the gloating message the seller sent her (I bought it for 2 GBP in a charity shop, you daft cow the return period is over, so what if it is a fake" so with the "not as described" we mentioned that due to lacking quality that is untypical for the brand, tried to return and questioned authenticity and asked the seller where the item was bought.
I happily help her out and would even buy her a new coat, but spending money that just goes down the drain, she is a bit bigger than I am so none of my coats will fit her, otherwise I would happily give her one. I have helped her out in the past, she brought the coat over with her, totally a fake, her problem was that she treated it like the holy grail and hung it up.
I've hesitated to respond because every time you have a problem and you aren't happy with my replies (or those of others), you tend to snap at us. You need to keep in mind that you are a stranger to me and if I try to help you, it's coming from the goodness of my heart and I owe you nothing.
The first thing I suggest is to find out whether the coat is actually fake or not. I recommend posting pictures and/or the listing if the listing has adequate pictures on the "authenticate this Burberry" thread. @terite is very knowledgeable and who knows? Maybe the coat is genuine!
The rest of my advice isn't based the coat being counterfeit because that hasn't been positively determined. While it's possibly fake, you need something more than an SA's word. (In fact, Burb employees are known for telling buyers of secondary market items that "authenticity can't be determined." That doesn't mean an item is fake; just that they don't want buyers using ebay and they'll refuse to confirm authenticity.)
You aren't going to like what I say but the facts are that:
Paypal does have a 180 day policy for disputes but since Paypal is more likely than ebay to require documentation proving that the item is SNAD/counterfeit, the responsibility for paying for that is on her. (Ebay has been known to require documentation too but it's rare that it happens.)
A SNAD dispute with Paypal is likely to need documentation for whatever the claim is. Professional authentications are NOT just for authenticity.
Your friend has 3 options:
1. Verify authenticity on the Burb authentication thread where she might even find it to be authentic
2. If deemed fake, file a paypal dispute and possibly have to purchase a pro authentication
3. If too expensive, she can keep the coat, wear it and learn a lesson so if she buys something in the future, she keeps track of the timeframe required for protection.
JMHO.
The first thing I suggest is to find out whether the coat is actually fake or not. I recommend posting pictures and/or the listing if the listing has adequate pictures on the "authenticate this Burberry" thread. @terite is very knowledgeable and who knows? Maybe the coat is genuine!
The rest of my advice isn't based the coat being counterfeit because that hasn't been positively determined. While it's possibly fake, you need something more than an SA's word. (In fact, Burb employees are known for telling buyers of secondary market items that "authenticity can't be determined." That doesn't mean an item is fake; just that they don't want buyers using ebay and they'll refuse to confirm authenticity.)
You aren't going to like what I say but the facts are that:
- When buying on ebay, buyer has protection but has to be her own best advocate.
- Buyers have a responsibility to be diligent.
- If buyer isn't expert in the brand, she needs to work within the timeline to verify authenticity.
- Buyer can (or could have) verified authenticity BEFORE buying and presumably wouldn't have bought if authenticity couldn't be verified.
- Ebay has a generous 30 day policy and buyer has (or in this case HAD) plenty of time to verify authenticity and open a dispute if necessary.
- Ebay's policy for SNAD disputes is better than paypal's when done within the timeframe.
Paypal does have a 180 day policy for disputes but since Paypal is more likely than ebay to require documentation proving that the item is SNAD/counterfeit, the responsibility for paying for that is on her. (Ebay has been known to require documentation too but it's rare that it happens.)
The existence or lack of labels doesn't necessary mean that an item is fake. Labels can fall off or be removed.
A SNAD dispute with Paypal is likely to need documentation for whatever the claim is. Professional authentications are NOT just for authenticity.
Your friend has 3 options:
1. Verify authenticity on the Burb authentication thread where she might even find it to be authentic
2. If deemed fake, file a paypal dispute and possibly have to purchase a pro authentication
3. If too expensive, she can keep the coat, wear it and learn a lesson so if she buys something in the future, she keeps track of the timeframe required for protection.
JMHO.
I actually had a look at it, and the fact that the SA who deals with Burberry at a high end department store considered it as "not one of our products" - very sloppy stitching and lacking material labels, a lining that Burberry never used, and even the brand label not "quite right" and the person who sold it saying "I don't care if it is a fake, I found it for 2 in a charity shop and sold it, you bought it, not my problem!"
As for options, I think there is also a third option, citizens advise and filing an official claim, yup, it will totally ruin the seller but not her problem, because in all honesty, the seller deserves it. But to ask somebody to wear a fake coat, that is a bit insulting and condoning fakes, sorry if I feel very strongly about fakes, for me it is simply theft of intellectual property and not to mention that a lot of those goods are actually dangerous. As for the time frame, yes, it did slip but she put a winter coat aside to wear it for winter, but as soon as she was made aware, she acted, she thought she struck a total bargain and stayed up to bid.
Look, I am not sure why you think that somebody who worked with a lot of high end goods is not able to identify certain brands they worked with a lot, you didn't work under Anna W and survive, if you didn't know your stuff.
While I am not happy to finance authentication and throw good money after bad, I am totally happy to finance whatever is needed to make it is painful as possible for somebody who sells fakes, because a person like that will go on palming off fake items on others. If somebody sells a fake unknowingly, an then is sorry, a totally different ball game to not caring. I had a few cases where I got fakes and my reaction totally depended on the seller, a "I am sorry, I was given this/found it in a charity shop" not an issue, people think they made a lucky find and weren't aware, it can happen, deliberately trying to take advantage, another ball game. I spent an hour on the phone with a friend in the legal profession earlier today, since she gave the seller the chance to make it right and he didn't he is now obliged to supply her with the item she has bought, which will cost him 2K more. OK with the legal fees, even at mate rates, it will cost more than authentication, but my friend will get a real coat out of it and the seller might not fare very well, I need to cut an onion to shed a tear for him, as for authentication, in case it is a court case, you can involve the brand, who then often will follow up with another law suit, costs them next to nothing.
As for snapping, I guess our definitions of snapping are very different. I simply think fakes are wrong, selling fakes is a crime and should be treated as such with the full force of the law, especially if done deliberately. Fakes are not a victimless crime, personally I would prefer it if all countries would actually do their best. In the case of my friend, I feel a bit guilty that I suggested that she looks on eBay for a winter coat, as her work load and Covid made it quite difficult to go to shops and physically buy items.
I honestly do not understand how somebody can be nonchalant about fakes, put away the economic hit (we all pay for that), the intellectual property theft (no different than picking a pocket), but those people do not stop at pretend designer items, only last week a child died here, parents bought a brand name child car seat 2nd hand, only it wasn't the real thing, the life of a child is a pretty steep price for somebody's personal gain. I know you like eBay, personally I approach it with caution, sadly due to Covid I have almost been forced to buy there again and I am not looking for "super bargains" or "something for nothing", I also don't want to "flip" things and sell them on for more, but the amount of fakes on there being palmed off to people who might not have enough experience, I can report, but they do not seem to do anything about it. I am totally aware that there are scammers on both sides, buyers and sellers.
Btw that Prada wallet, turned out to be fake and Prada took action, oddly enough the authentication company responded to them and the pictures were of a real item, again, seeing them online, you only see the pictures they put up, what you receive is another matter.
As for options, I think there is also a third option, citizens advise and filing an official claim, yup, it will totally ruin the seller but not her problem, because in all honesty, the seller deserves it. But to ask somebody to wear a fake coat, that is a bit insulting and condoning fakes, sorry if I feel very strongly about fakes, for me it is simply theft of intellectual property and not to mention that a lot of those goods are actually dangerous. As for the time frame, yes, it did slip but she put a winter coat aside to wear it for winter, but as soon as she was made aware, she acted, she thought she struck a total bargain and stayed up to bid.
Look, I am not sure why you think that somebody who worked with a lot of high end goods is not able to identify certain brands they worked with a lot, you didn't work under Anna W and survive, if you didn't know your stuff.
While I am not happy to finance authentication and throw good money after bad, I am totally happy to finance whatever is needed to make it is painful as possible for somebody who sells fakes, because a person like that will go on palming off fake items on others. If somebody sells a fake unknowingly, an then is sorry, a totally different ball game to not caring. I had a few cases where I got fakes and my reaction totally depended on the seller, a "I am sorry, I was given this/found it in a charity shop" not an issue, people think they made a lucky find and weren't aware, it can happen, deliberately trying to take advantage, another ball game. I spent an hour on the phone with a friend in the legal profession earlier today, since she gave the seller the chance to make it right and he didn't he is now obliged to supply her with the item she has bought, which will cost him 2K more. OK with the legal fees, even at mate rates, it will cost more than authentication, but my friend will get a real coat out of it and the seller might not fare very well, I need to cut an onion to shed a tear for him, as for authentication, in case it is a court case, you can involve the brand, who then often will follow up with another law suit, costs them next to nothing.
As for snapping, I guess our definitions of snapping are very different. I simply think fakes are wrong, selling fakes is a crime and should be treated as such with the full force of the law, especially if done deliberately. Fakes are not a victimless crime, personally I would prefer it if all countries would actually do their best. In the case of my friend, I feel a bit guilty that I suggested that she looks on eBay for a winter coat, as her work load and Covid made it quite difficult to go to shops and physically buy items.
I honestly do not understand how somebody can be nonchalant about fakes, put away the economic hit (we all pay for that), the intellectual property theft (no different than picking a pocket), but those people do not stop at pretend designer items, only last week a child died here, parents bought a brand name child car seat 2nd hand, only it wasn't the real thing, the life of a child is a pretty steep price for somebody's personal gain. I know you like eBay, personally I approach it with caution, sadly due to Covid I have almost been forced to buy there again and I am not looking for "super bargains" or "something for nothing", I also don't want to "flip" things and sell them on for more, but the amount of fakes on there being palmed off to people who might not have enough experience, I can report, but they do not seem to do anything about it. I am totally aware that there are scammers on both sides, buyers and sellers.
Btw that Prada wallet, turned out to be fake and Prada took action, oddly enough the authentication company responded to them and the pictures were of a real item, again, seeing them online, you only see the pictures they put up, what you receive is another matter.
You haven't read too many of my (nearly 46k) posts if you think I'm condoning the sale of fakes. I do NOT support or condone it and I report many listings every day. Nothing I posted in response to you supports it.
But I also look at the facts of a case.
My suggestion that she wear the coat is a way to make use of something that she can't get a refund, cannot return, can't afford the authentication and seems to be stuck with. Chances are that if she removes the fake label (if it is actually fake), the coat will be a generic unbranded item. (There have been many fakes with "stuck on" labeling that once removed, have no evidence of being the brand marked.)
If as you say, you truly want to out the seller as dishonest, post the listing and seller ID to the Hall of Shame (once it's identified to be fake).
But I also look at the facts of a case.
- Your friend missed the deadline for filing an ebay case
- When suggested that you file through Paypal, you said your friend can't afford a professional authentication
- You say, "Look, I am not sure why you think that somebody who worked with a lot of high end goods is not able to identify certain brands they worked with a lot." I don't know whether it's you or your friend who is claiming expertise but I can say that there are dozens of "proclaimed experts" who have mistakenly or knowingly misidentified and listed fakes on ebay.
My suggestion that she wear the coat is a way to make use of something that she can't get a refund, cannot return, can't afford the authentication and seems to be stuck with. Chances are that if she removes the fake label (if it is actually fake), the coat will be a generic unbranded item. (There have been many fakes with "stuck on" labeling that once removed, have no evidence of being the brand marked.)
If as you say, you truly want to out the seller as dishonest, post the listing and seller ID to the Hall of Shame (once it's identified to be fake).
Suggesting that your friend post in the Burberry authentication thread & perhaps take it from there.
Many of us condone "fakes" in the marketplace but since you are throwing that word around without "backup", why
not see if the coat is actually fake from an experienced tPF'er who likely knows more than many of us do.
Your friend made some poor decisions here & unfortunately that falls on her shoulders whether you like
hearing that or not. If you can help her with filing a dispute & perhaps luck out without a formal authentication
you have done something beneficial
I'm not so sure that we are "forced to buy on eBay", it's a choice we make..& while yes there are plenty
of good buys, there are other sources we can explore..
Also note on many threads here, that SA's have been told not to offer an opinion on authenticity from Chanel
all the way down to other designer categories.
Many of us condone "fakes" in the marketplace but since you are throwing that word around without "backup", why
not see if the coat is actually fake from an experienced tPF'er who likely knows more than many of us do.
Your friend made some poor decisions here & unfortunately that falls on her shoulders whether you like
hearing that or not. If you can help her with filing a dispute & perhaps luck out without a formal authentication
you have done something beneficial
I'm not so sure that we are "forced to buy on eBay", it's a choice we make..& while yes there are plenty
of good buys, there are other sources we can explore..
Also note on many threads here, that SA's have been told not to offer an opinion on authenticity from Chanel
all the way down to other designer categories.
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