Does anyone love bags but have an issue with leather?

sparkle67 said:
with all of the human issues facing us as a global society- our priorities must be in order. this of course is just my opinion-

I don't think it is appropriate to criticize people for allocating their resources towards helping animals whenever ALL of us waste so much money on things that aren't even charity related. Isn't it a horrible disordering of priorities to spend money on LV purses when you could send it to the starving children? How on earth is spending money to help animals worse than spending thousands of dollars on purses?

Trust me, I spend thousands of dollars on junk for myself too, as well as spending a lot on animals....but I would never tell others that they don't have good priorities when I see them spending money on purses instead of sending it to the starving children!
 
MandM- you said exactly what needed to be said in response.:smile:
And good to talk about where money is being spent in general, since we are in a purse forum after all talking about animal and human rights.
 
I think it's hypocrital to be against furs and exotics leathers, but like Chanel and LV. If fur is cruel and exotic leather, all animal "abuse" is. I don' think it's cruel or mean to eat and/or use animals products. People complain of the lives of minks and cattle. If you let them free do you think they get to have fun all day? No, they'd be killed in the wild anyway. I don't think you can compare animals and people/children, either. We care for our children. Many animals eat their children. Isn't that disgusting!!! Call child welfare!!!! Oh wait, you can't. I think people who are against fur/meat/and exotic leather should not judge others. It's pretty hypocrital to say oh you're mean for wearing this or eating that, when you bascially are doing the same with your shoes and bags. So, you may judge me when you eat no meat, nothing from animals, have no type of leather or fur product, and don't eat jello or use toothpaste.
 
MandM said:
I don't think it is appropriate to criticize people for allocating their resources towards helping animals whenever ALL of us waste so much money on things that aren't even charity related. Isn't it a horrible disordering of priorities to spend money on LV purses when you could send it to the starving children? How on earth is spending money to help animals worse than spending thousands of dollars on purses?

Trust me, I spend thousands of dollars on junk for myself too, as well as spending a lot on animals....but I would never tell others that they don't have good priorities when I see them spending money on purses instead of sending it to the starving children!
I didn't say your priorities were not in order I spoke in terms of the global community. I think we all could do more towards human rights issues- I just wondered for those who do spend so much time and energy on animal rights spend an equal amount on issues regarding stasrving children and the like...
 
purselova34 said:
I think it's hypocrital to be against furs and exotics leathers, but like Chanel and LV. If fur is cruel and exotic leather, all animal "abuse" is. I don' think it's cruel or mean to eat and/or use animals products. People complain of the lives of minks and cattle. If you let them free do you think they get to have fun all day? No, they'd be killed in the wild anyway. I don't think you can compare animals and people/children, either. We care for our children. Many animals eat their children. Isn't that disgusting!!! Call child welfare!!!! Oh wait, you can't. I think people who are against fur/meat/and exotic leather should not judge others. It's pretty hypocrital to say oh you're mean for wearing this or eating that, when you bascially are doing the same with your shoes and bags. So, you may judge me when you eat no meat, nothing from animals, have no type of leather or fur product, and don't eat jello or use toothpaste.
Completely agree! For those who were lost in the last part-- gelatin is made from animal parts :sick:
 
I've been veggie most of my life (from the point where I realised as a little girl that I didn't have to eat meat) and I don't eat any type of meat/fish/gelatine etc. I chose to become vegetarian because I couldnt deal with eating animals and the thought of having my body digest them (i get grossed out really easily).

As for the whole leather thing, I'm not a big fan of leather and I do try to buy as little as possible (currently all I have is the trim on a couple of LV's and I dont intend on buying any more) and even that makes me feel bad about wearing a dead animal. But at the end of the day I realise leather is everywhere and I wouldn't not sit on a friends couch just because it was leather, likewise it doesnt bother me if other people eat meat/wear lizard skins because its their personal choice.
 
purselova34 said:
People complain of the lives of minks and cattle. If you let them free do you think they get to have fun all day? No, they'd be killed in the wild anyway.

I've personally never seen or heard of a mink gnawing off its own leg in the wild or experiencing psychological trauma from being confined to a cage for its entire life. Maybe that's just me though.

I definately agree with your point that we should not judge. I personally don't wear fur, but that doesn't mean that I feel to need to throw red paint on anyone I see wearing a fur coat. But your argument is seriously flawed if you are basing it on the fact that the cruelty that the fur industry inflicts on animals is no different from what they would experience in nature.
 
purselova34 said:
If you let them free do you think they get to have fun all day? No, they'd be killed in the wild anyway. I don't think you can compare animals and people/children, either. We care for our children. Many animals eat their children. Isn't that disgusting!!!

Interesting point:smile: It is certainly true that life in the wild can be awful. Male lions will sometimes kill the cubs of other lions so that they can be king. Hmmm, what other species could ever be so horrid as to kill children so that they could take power? The two princes locked in the tower of London to die so that their uncle could be king are only one example of the way human beings are little different -- in their behavior -- from animals. Just because the animal eats the child while the human dumps the bodies in the river doesn't make the person morally superior. Just because some human beings like to kill each other for profit and power doesn't mean that we need to encourage it. In fact, we try to prevent human murder.

Plus, Isn't the whole point of charity and social work to make the world BETTER than it is NATURALLY? We try to help abused children if their mothers don't take care of them. Why not do the same for animals? What harm could there be in trying to be kind to animals, even if they aren't always kind to each other. Their wild lives are hard enough as it is, why introduce more pain and suffering?

Anyway, I know this is a heated topic -- and I'm not taking it personally, so hope others aren't either! -- but I've spent a lot of time researching these issues, so really have strong opinions about them and am pretty convinced that I've looked at all of the arguments and believe we need to do much more to help animals than we currently are. Am I perfect, avoiding ALL animal products every day? Absolutely not! But I'm at least trying to do better myself and campaign to reform the conditions under which animal products are made so that there is less suffering.
 
lilian said:
I've personally never seen or heard of a mink gnawing off its own leg in the wild or experiencing psychological trauma from being confined to a cage for its entire life. Maybe that's just me though.

I definately agree with your point that we should not judge. I personally don't wear fur, but that doesn't mean that I feel to need to throw red paint on anyone I see wearing a fur coat.

Great points:smile: Agree
 
MandM said:
The two princes locked in the tower of London to die so that their uncle could be king

On a COMPLETELY unrelated note, I have my Shakespeare final exam later today and that reference made me smile for a minute (despite the fact that it's horrendous and cruel).
 
MandM said:
It shouldn't have to be an "either/or" issue! The more compassion and kindness that is expressed in the world, the better. No one is chosing BETWEEN children and animals -- I certainly want the best for both. Indeed, by protesting against cruelty to animals, we are also working against child abuse -- since many child abusers begin as pet abusers -- and we are trying to prevent the notion that cruelty to any living being is EVER acceptable.

If you read Patterson's "Eternal Treblinka," you will see that many of the top level organizers of the Nazi Holocaust had experience and training in slaughterhouses and in genetic animal breeding laboratories. <...> Arguing that we don't need to care about the feelings of animals is needlessly introducing cruelty into our cultural dialogues.
Brilliantly put! :biggrin:

Also, many psychopaths who went on to torture and kill humans started on animals, so it really is an indicator of a whole society's mental health, how it treats its helpless animals.

My mum eats meat and like me, she's coming from a place of her own ethics, and she only buys meat that has been farmed ethically and with due concern for the animal's welfare.

To me, eating meat at all is a completely seperate issue to turning a blind eye to cruelty and it's only the latter issue that I would ever be unyielding about, as there may be justifications and reasons why people eat meat, but there is never any reason to tolerate cruelty - it helps no-one and corrupts us all.

Having been veggie for so very long, I have noticed that the minute anyone mentions avoiding meat or slaughterhous products, meat eaters start saying about people being "judgemental" - even where it's very clear no-one is judging them! :huh:

I think that says more about meat eater's feelings than anything veggies are saying or doing.... ;)

And regarding prioritising starving children, if we took the money used to pay for the medical treatment of ten individual kids with cancer in the west we could save 1,000s of lives of people dying from starvation in the developing world. Yet if it was (God forbid) our child who was sick, who'd consider letting them die and donating the money to Oxfam for even one millisecond?! :sad:

My point being, you cannot quantify whose suffering is more important and just have to do what you can, where you can, for the beings you feel the deepest connection to.

Animal welfare in the fur industry is notoriously appalling and while to my mind a mink's life is as precious as, and equal to, a cow's, the inherant cruelty of the uregulated farming practices would put me right off it.

I do buy eggs occasionally, but always free-range and never, ever battery farmed! Same product, better welfare, is why I mention that.

Finally, most animals only eat their young where they are ALL threatened with starvation or are losing their habitats, and that is to prevent their young from dying painful deaths and to preserve the mother's own life - humans have late-stage abortions for much less serious reasons. :sad:

Outside that, it's well known that the best way to endanger yourself in the wild is to threaten a female animal's young, she'll go for you whether she's a tiger or a house cat, and so please don't think that animals never care for their "children" because they do, very much so!

Check out http://www.animalsentience.com/ if you want to see how very much animals can be like us at times, whether or not you eat meat it is interesting reading! ;)

Cx
 
sparkle67 said:
I find it amazing that so many people feel so strongly about animal rights but become strangely silent on certain human rights issues. When we have children in this world dying of starvation every minute of every day why do we insist on wasting so many resources on animal rights? Aren't children more important? With all of the money PETA spends on anti-fur campaigns I believe we could feed all of the those children. I realize this is not a popular opinion on this thread but as a mother, pet owner, who does not wear fur, eats meat, and uses leather- I just wonder about the priorities some times. That said- I don't think that animals should be treated cruelly- but with all of the human issues facing us as a global society- our priorities must be in order. this of course is just my opinion-

We are not making bags out of humans are we? Of course we are all very concerned (if I may speak for us all!) about human rights issues. It's jsut that that's for anotehr post... the issue here is how to reach a sensible compromise between animals rights and your bag desires!
 
MandM said:
I don't think it is appropriate to criticize people for allocating their resources towards helping animals whenever ALL of us waste so much money on things that aren't even charity related. Isn't it a horrible disordering of priorities to spend money on LV purses when you could send it to the starving children? How on earth is spending money to help animals worse than spending thousands of dollars on purses?

Trust me, I spend thousands of dollars on junk for myself too, as well as spending a lot on animals....but I would never tell others that they don't have good priorities when I see them spending money on purses instead of sending it to the starving children!

MandM what I do is put large purchases on my credit card and then donate the points to a charity- my bank allows that.
I also sponsor 2 bears and buy then food each month. It jsut allows me to get a bit of balance in my life. Although when I earn more I am going to try and donate more - not spend more!
 
I just wanted to add that a lot of the financial aid we trustingly send to charities after seeing children starving on TV either gets wasted in the running expenses of the charity or falls into the wrong hands and is used by the warlords and the very people who are, in the first place, causing the problems.

Foreign aid too, from our govts, is often misused and many countries who have starving citizens have incredibly high levels of corruption and conflict, where weapons, limos and palaces are a priority for the rulers over feeding their own people.

Not saying that makes it okay not to care, just mentioning that, it's not a black and white issue and there are many compelling arguments that say aid without education is keeping people in the developing world dependent.

So it's not like every handbag in my wardrobe equates to X number of dying children I haven't fed, because that money might have gone to buy the bullets that keep their societies unstable.

Money donated to Uk animal welfare charities is unlikely to end up buying arms because they are much more accountable!

Cx PS Sponsoring BEARS?! Cool! ;)

We have such BORING wildlife in the UK!