Diamond experts: Question about inclusions

[mpark46]

So my BF and I have been shopping around for engagement rings. One of the things that I forgot to ask the jewelers that we've seen is a question about inclusions.

When folks talk about the visibility of inclusions, are they only referring to inclusions (whatever grade they may be) that can be seen from the top of the diamond down into the center and not from the bottom up?

I looked at a couple of VVS1 and VS1 diamonds where the inclusions were not visible looking at the diamond from the top down (the table i think its called), but if you turn the diamond over the inclusions were visible to the naked eye.

 

[Swanky]

yes, *normally* it's from looking at it from the top. Sometimes you can get one that won't be found even turning it over if you ask the jeweler to make sure the inclusion is behind a prong. It could be completely 'eye clean' if you do that.
The thing is, it's all pretty subjective, most jewelers have slightly different ideas about what eye clean is, like how far away you have to be, etc. . .

 

[Roo]

^^

You're right Swanky. It also has a lot to do with the CUT and also the color of the diamond too. I've seen SI1s that have been cut in such a way that the stone looks better than a VVS1 compared to it.

 

[bl2k4]

So my BF and I have been shopping around for engagement rings. One of the things that I forgot to ask the jewelers that we've seen is a question about inclusions.

When folks talk about the visibility of inclusions, are they only referring to inclusions (whatever grade they may be) that can be seen from the top of the diamond down into the center and not from the bottom up?

I looked at a couple of VVS1 and VS1 diamonds where the inclusions were not visible looking at the diamond from the top down (the table i think its called), but if you turn the diamond over the inclusions were visible to the naked eye.

vvs1 and vs1 are so much different in clarity. It also depend on which company graded them in order to use the "right" level of its clarity.

VVS1 of GIA grading is very difficulty to see in naked eyes even you've turned side ways, if not at all.

I have the 5.35ct, 1 ct, 3.25ct stones, those are VVS1, in G and H color, which have GIA certified. None of them could see under naked eyes.

 

[chaz]

All inclusions should follow a Worldwide standard for grading and equipment used. VVS1 should only be found with a 10x loupe or lens,and even then it should be pretty difficult to find.Its position can affect its ultimate 'call' from a grader,if its very much off to one side and discretely sits under facet junctions then its more than likely going to be VVS1,if its sat slap bang in the middle of the table and a little easier to find,then it could be 'called' down a clarity grade. There is the most amount of fire and rteflection coming up through the crown and as this is usually how diamonds are veiwed then they are graded from this point.As there is much less reflection coming back at you if you veiw through the pavillion,it does make them a little easier to see.
Grading can be a subjective art,but there is a Worldwide and recognised standard for it,if one grader worked in New York and then re-located to Japan or London,he/she would have to follow the exact same standards,otherwise it becomes very unfair from place to place.

Most grading is done under a color corrected 'northlight' as it has the minimum glare and again this is used Worldwide to maintain a contancy in the grading field.If you go to a reputable jeweller,eye clean loupe clean should all be explained to you while you are there.the top end ones will all have a very similar if not the same standards,but as Swanky says it can vary from one jeweller to the next,the top end ones tho would'nt want to get embarassed by being proved wrong by another top ender so there grades and 'calls' will be much the same!!!!!!

 

[bl2k4]

All inclusions should follow a Worldwide standard for grading and equipment used. VVS1 should only be found with a 10x loupe or lens,and even then it should be pretty difficult to find.Its position can affect its ultimate 'call' from a grader,if its very much off to one side and discretely sits under facet junctions then its more than likely going to be VVS1,if its sat slap bang in the middle of the table and a little easier to find,then it could be 'called' down a clarity grade. There is the most amount of fire and rteflection coming up through the crown and as this is usually how diamonds are veiwed then they are graded from this point.As there is much less reflection coming back at you if you veiw through the pavillion,it does make them a little easier to see.
Grading can be a subjective art,but there is a Worldwide and recognised standard for it,if one grader worked in New York and then re-located to Japan or London,he/she would have to follow the exact same standards,otherwise it becomes very unfair from place to place.

Most grading is done under a color corrected 'northlight' as it has the minimum glare and again this is used Worldwide to maintain a contancy in the grading field.

yes, agreed with you on that. However, if you look at GIA's grading with EGL or whoever, it is A Big different in clarity, cut and color as well. Of course, price wise is affected deeply as far as trade-in or purchasing.

 

[chaz]

yes, agreed with you on that. However, if you look at GIA's grading with EGL or whoever, it is A Big different in clarity, cut and color as well. Of course, price wise is affected deeply as far as trade-in or purchasing.

Very valid point indeed,over here in the UK the best one for us is HRD,EGL tend to be quite fuzzy,but the worst one was UK GIA,if it was an American GIA it would be right on the nail!! I never found any to waver too far from cut and proportions tho,just a bit 'elastic' with clarity calling,and usually pretty much all the same across the board on color,sometimes a + or - difference.

 

[kbell]

I always though anything in V category shouldn't have any inclusions visible to the naked eye period. Upside down, sideways or not...... maybe I'm wrong??

I have a G SI1 that i've been looking @ for yrs & have yet to see an inclusion to the naked eye from all angles - top, sides. I can't see it direct upside down because it's set so I don't care about that part really. I personally wouldn't purchase a VVS1 diamond that I could see the inclusion with the naked eye regardless of angle. for the $$ they charge for the diff in grading I wouldn't want to see any inclusions at all!!

 

[chaz]

I always though anything in V category shouldn't have any inclusions visible to the naked eye period. Upside down, sideways or not...... maybe I'm wrong??

I have a G SI1 that i've been looking @ for yrs & have yet to see an inclusion to the naked eye from all angles - top, sides. I can't see it direct upside down because it's set so I don't care about that part really. I personally wouldn't purchase a VVS1 diamond that I could see the inclusion with the naked eye regardless of angle. for the $$ they charge for the diff in grading I wouldn't want to see any inclusions at all!!

No,your not wrong don't worry!!! Anything SI you should never find with the naked eye, its the 'set' below that that is described as pique or included and these would be depicted as I1 I2 I3 or of if was cibjo graded it would be described as P1 P2 P3,and the grade below that is just called reject as its considered too included to wear without risk of damaging it.

Lots of ladies don't mind going the same route as you as what you can't see with the naked eye,and is small enough not to cause a problem with osbstructing light,is fine by them. Any stone in the SI range won't have an inclusion significant enough to cause any problems and the money 'saved' in that area can mean you can go for a slightly larger/whiter stone if you wanted to.Some ladies just veiw it as 'well I don't wear the certificate to tell everyone what it is,so if its not visible to the naked eye who's to know?' xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[risingsun]

I would like to add, that in the United States, the two top labs are AGS and GIA. In terms of grading for cut, AGS is the only lab that can designate a diamond as being cut and performing to ideal standards. Ideal 0 is their top grade and they are the only lab where the term "ideal" actually means it. EGL is not highly regarded, with EGL-USA being the best of the bunch. Most mall store diamonds seem to have an IGI grade. The less said the better.