'Designer breeds' and Mutts?

orinoco

Old school tPFer
O.G.
Jan 31, 2006
3,114
5
Hi all~~!! :heart:

please be assured i do NOT support any kind of animal cruelty, and i'm fully aware of the issues of unethical breeding.

but could someone please educate me on this matter a lil bit? how does a breeder force breed a dog?? are a combination of some breeds worse than others?

my dad was a certified AKC gsd breeder, and i remember it was HELL trying to keep our studs away from my uncle's retriever. and what about stray dogs mating with each other?

TIA everyone!! :okay:
 

Couturegrl

Addicted to Tiffany's
O.G.
Apr 24, 2006
8,094
11
I am a little confused by your question. Are you asking how they pick what breeds of dogs to cross? Like a Pug and Chihuahua or a Yorkie and a Poodle?

Or are you asking why some people are opposed to designer breeds in general?

:smile:
 

evolkatie

O.G.
Jan 19, 2006
5,679
9
male dogs will mate with any female dog in heat and vice versa.

when you mean by combinations worse than others, it really all depends. Purebred dogs keep diseases within their breed because of interbreeding. When you introduce another breed, that disease is less likely to come up assuming that breed doesnt have the same disease being passed down. Mutts aren't bad and in fact, a lot of mutts are extremely well mannered and have better immunity.

as far as people buying designer breeds, purebreds instead of adopting, it's all just a matter of preference.
 

lizavet8

"Ruffian"
O.G.
May 3, 2007
1,223
78
I think what you may be referring to ("forced" breeding) is the implication that certain breeds have difficulty breeding and whelping without medical assistance; bulldogs, boston terriers, mastiffs, corgis, etc. Some of the "designer" crosses are crosses of two breeds which can have difficulties; I've done several C-sections on Pugs and Chis. I really love canine repro, and have several responsible breeders as clients-but there are a lot out there who force "hybrids" into existance. But are they forcing breeding? Not naturally-they may be doing artificial insemination. But, as stated above, like high-school boyfriends, male dogs are pretty darn receptive to breeding anything that crosses their path.
 

orinoco

Old school tPFer
O.G.
Jan 31, 2006
3,114
5
I am a little confused by your question. Are you asking how they pick what breeds of dogs to cross? Like a Pug and Chihuahua or a Yorkie and a Poodle?

Or are you asking why some people are opposed to designer breeds in general?

:smile:

sorry 'bout the confusion :smile: well actually, i just want to know more about all this 'hybrid' breeding... so that includes why ppl are opposed, and also also how they pick. :yes:

i was actually under the impression that certain breeds would not breed with another, and they (the breeders) did it by artificial insemination. :shrugs:
 

miss alice

Dogs Rule!!
O.G.
May 24, 2006
3,732
8
i am confused by your question...

yes, unneutered male dogs will want to mate with any unspayed female (who is in heat) naturally, that is why it is SO IMPORTANT TO SPAY AND NEUTER. Only irresponsible pet owners would not neuter and spay their pets. Also, only irresponsible pet owners would let their unaltered pets to be near the vicinity of other unaltered dogs. if you know you have an unspayed female, you need to keep her away from other dogs when she is in heat, and any unneutered males need to wear belly bands. so, what you described about your uncle's dogs wont happen..

it is a really common misconception that mutts are "better' bc pure breds have inbreeding and thus hereditary diseases. Uh, not true! part of why there is so many misconceptions in this area is because people throw and use terms like "i have my dogs' papers" and "designer dogs" and "pure breds" too loosely and often, wrongfully.

first, pure bred dogs are healthy- if they come from a reputable breeders. A reputable breeder is someone who 1) is AKC registered 2) SHOWS THEIR DOGS and 3) conducts DNA and titer testing on all their dogs BEFORE consider using them to breed, or even enter into the breeding pool. If a breeder does not do all of the above things, then even if that person only breeds pure breed, that breed is NOT QUALITY b/c he/she is not doing anything to BETTER the breed. You are suppose to weed out undesirable traits and try to improve the health of your dogs...that’s why u do tests and show your dogs. When you show, you are constantly comparing your dog to the standard of the breed, from every level. Whether it is the coat of the dog, the bone structure, the teeth, the eyes, everything is being compared for the improvement of the breed. this way, each generation will not only be healthier, but also maintain the desirable looks that represent each breed. Therefore, pure bred dogs who come from reputable SHOW BREEDERS will always be healthy. SHOW breeders do not use sick dogs to breed.

Second, "papers" are used so loosely, people think any pet shop r back yard breeders who give them "papers" are legit- NOT TRUE! first, those papers can be forged very easily. Second, AKC gives u registration bc ur pure bred, but as i explained prior, pure bred doesn’t really mean quality nor healthy. Unless your "papers" come from a SHOW BREEDER, it doesn’t mean anything as far as guarantee.

Designer dogs are mutts. period. mutts are not healthier, b/c u dont know who the ***** and stud are..think about it, a person who breeds a "malti poo" - so you are mixing the incliantion of liver shunts and luxtating patella of both breeds together..do you really think that is healthy??? u are combing traits of potentially really opposite breeds of dogs and creating a new dog that is hard to predict in terms of personality and genetic deformities. it is like playing Russian Roulette. I see people ask all the time about personalities, weight, health, grooming behavior of mutts..and that goes to the heart of the problem- there is no answer b/c u dont know what kind of mix/mutt you have! That is why those who cross breed dogs are irresponsible and inhumane.

force breeding is when inhumane puppy mill owners use sick or really small females to breed. these females (under 4 pounds usually) should not be bred b/c they either will have miscarriages or will need C sections to give birth. but, these humans purposely target these small females b/c they want to create mutts that are "small" so they can sell to people who go "oohh" and '"ahhh" over "teacups.' Meanwhile, these "teacups" die before they reach their 1st birthday due to liver shunts. That is called force breeding- making unqualified females breed, causing often their own deaths and birthing to unhealthy pups.

do i expect every person to buy a dog from a show breeder? NO. best route is always to adopt, neuter and spay. but, if you can not do so, and want to buy a specific breed, then please buy from a show breeder. a show breeder is like the ones we see on TV at the Westminster shows...they know their lines inside and out and when you buy from them, you know your dogs will be healthy and you are not contributing to the cycle of greed and torture from puppy mills. Show breeders often put in more money into their dogs (testing, showing) then they make money off selling dogs..i know that b/c my Mia comes from a very well known top tier Maltese breeder. Her breeder spends so much money into his dogs, and he very rarely sells his pups...or breeds them..most of the time is spent on showing. When a breeder devotes so much of his time and money into dogs, you KNOW they are doing it for passion and love, not money. That is why i support and believe in buying only from show breeders. i would also boycott from any pet supplies store that sells puppies. those are from puppy mills.
 

babieejae1101

Jess <3
O.G.
Nov 9, 2006
1,388
0
i am confused by your question...

yes, unneutered male dogs will want to mate with any unspayed female (who is in heat) naturally, that is why it is SO IMPORTANT TO SPAY AND NEUTER. Only irresponsible pet owners would not neuter and spay their pets. Also, only irresponsible pet owners would let their unaltered pets to be near the vicinity of other unaltered dogs. if you know you have an unspayed female, you need to keep her away from other dogs when she is in heat, and any unneutered males need to wear belly bands. so, what you described about your uncle's dogs wont happen..

it is a really common misconception that mutts are "better' bc pure breds have inbreeding and thus hereditary diseases. Uh, not true! part of why there is so many misconceptions in this area is because people throw and use terms like "i have my dogs' papers" and "designer dogs" and "pure breds" too loosely and often, wrongfully.

first, pure bred dogs are healthy- if they come from a reputable breeders. A reputable breeder is someone who 1) is AKC registered 2) SHOWS THEIR DOGS and 3) conducts DNA and titer testing on all their dogs BEFORE consider using them to breed, or even enter into the breeding pool. If a breeder does not do all of the above things, then even if that person only breeds pure breed, that breed is NOT QUALITY b/c he/she is not doing anything to BETTER the breed. You are suppose to weed out undesirable traits and try to improve the health of your dogs...that’s why u do tests and show your dogs. When you show, you are constantly comparing your dog to the standard of the breed, from every level. Whether it is the coat of the dog, the bone structure, the teeth, the eyes, everything is being compared for the improvement of the breed. this way, each generation will not only be healthier, but also maintain the desirable looks that represent each breed. Therefore, pure bred dogs who come from reputable SHOW BREEDERS will always be healthy. SHOW breeders do not use sick dogs to breed.

Second, "papers" are used so loosely, people think any pet shop r back yard breeders who give them "papers" are legit- NOT TRUE! first, those papers can be forged very easily. Second, AKC gives u registration bc ur pure bred, but as i explained prior, pure bred doesn’t really mean quality nor healthy. Unless your "papers" come from a SHOW BREEDER, it doesn’t mean anything as far as guarantee.

Designer dogs are mutts. period. mutts are not healthier, b/c u dont know who the ***** and stud are..think about it, a person who breeds a "malti poo" - so you are mixing the incliantion of liver shunts and luxtating patella of both breeds together..do you really think that is healthy??? u are combing traits of potentially really opposite breeds of dogs and creating a new dog that is hard to predict in terms of personality and genetic deformities. it is like playing Russian Roulette. I see people ask all the time about personalities, weight, health, grooming behavior of mutts..and that goes to the heart of the problem- there is no answer b/c u dont know what kind of mix/mutt you have! That is why those who cross breed dogs are irresponsible and inhumane.

force breeding is when inhumane puppy mill owners use sick or really small females to breed. these females (under 4 pounds usually) should not be bred b/c they either will have miscarriages or will need C sections to give birth. but, these humans purposely target these small females b/c they want to create mutts that are "small" so they can sell to people who go "oohh" and '"ahhh" over "teacups.' Meanwhile, these "teacups" die before they reach their 1st birthday due to liver shunts. That is called force breeding- making unqualified females breed, causing often their own deaths and birthing to unhealthy pups.

do i expect every person to buy a dog from a show breeder? NO. best route is always to adopt, neuter and spay. but, if you can not do so, and want to buy a specific breed, then please buy from a show breeder. a show breeder is like the ones we see on TV at the Westminster shows...they know their lines inside and out and when you buy from them, you know your dogs will be healthy and you are not contributing to the cycle of greed and torture from puppy mills. Show breeders often put in more money into their dogs (testing, showing) then they make money off selling dogs..i know that b/c my Mia comes from a very well known top tier Maltese breeder. Her breeder spends so much money into his dogs, and he very rarely sells his pups...or breeds them..most of the time is spent on showing. When a breeder devotes so much of his time and money into dogs, you KNOW they are doing it for passion and love, not money. That is why i support and believe in buying only from show breeders. i would also boycott from any pet supplies store that sells puppies. those are from puppy mills.


I disagree with your mutt argument.Not all mutts are unhealthy. My dog is almost 17, a mutt and was rescued. She was never really sick until she got older. My whole family rescued mutts and all of them have been healthy. I agree that with breeders, you are able to get the dog's history, but personally, I rather rescue, but you can get some great dogs out of it. I don't honestly know why people want designer dogs. I guess it's the matter of preference. Sometimes you can get designer dogs from shelters and rescue organizations.
 

miss alice

Dogs Rule!!
O.G.
May 24, 2006
3,732
8
i did not say all mutts are unhealthy. where did i say that? i dont have anything against mutts but i do think it is ridiculous when pp say their dogs are designer when it is just a marketing term. what i said was, mutts are not HEALTHIER. pp seem to think mutts are healthier than pure breds. that is complete lie.

i was specifically referring to "designer" small dogs like a maltipoo who pay 5K for but really is a mutt. cross breeding small dogs like that is inherently dangerous, bc u dont know what you are getting. there is no such thing as designer dogs, only designer bags. in most cases, pp who cross breed on purpose to create "designer" dogs end up creating very small dogs who die before their 1st birthday.

i think it is great that you rescued dogs, and that they are healthy. i would have adopted too if it were not for my DH's severe allergies to dander, which basically limited my choice of breed..before marriage, i also adopted 2 dogs who were all healthy until their last days. but the truth is, no matter how much we preach about spay, neuter and adopt- there will always be pp who want to buy dogs, no? for those pp, i say buy from a show breeder.
 

chessmont

O.G.
Aug 22, 2006
12,089
1,890
yes, unneutered male dogs will want to mate with any unspayed female (who is in heat) naturally, that is why it is SO IMPORTANT TO SPAY AND NEUTER.


--Ummm, this is not the only method; a leash, a fence and supervision are also effective birth control methods. I have been using these birth control methods on my dogs for 15 years, with no accidental breedings occurring.

Only irresponsible pet owners would not neuter and spay their pets.

--I disagree. See above. But yes, pet owners who are incapable of the responsibility of owning an intact pet should castrate them.

Also, only irresponsible pet owners would let their unaltered pets to be near the vicinity of other unaltered dogs. if you know you have an unspayed female, you need to keep her away from other dogs when she is in heat,

--Agreed.

and any unneutered males need to wear belly bands. so, what you described about your uncle's dogs wont happen..

--A belly band will not prevent a dog from breeding a *****. It only prevents his marking in the house successfuly. The only solution is separation while the ***** is in heat - typically 3 weeks; I am so paranoid, I usually keep them separated for 4 weeks, just to ease my mind.

--I am a proud breeder, who only breeds the best to the best, health, conformation and temperament-wise.

P.S. Strictly speaking, there is no such thing as "forced breeding". If a ***** is not at the right time she will not accept the dog. Sometimes, even if the time is right, she hates the dog picked for her, and will not breed with him. The only way to "force" a breeding is to use artificial insemination. I did that once when the male was a spectacular dog, but he had died; I saved his semen at a facility in liquid nitrogen, and he bacame a father after he died.
 
Last edited:

babieejae1101

Jess <3
O.G.
Nov 9, 2006
1,388
0
Sorry I must have misread it wrong. I was just watching animal planet and even pure bred dogs have problems. For example, Boston Terriers have respiratory problems b/c their muzzles are too short. I am not trying to say that mutts are healthier. I just have had experience with them and the ones I know have been healthy. Honestly, every dog mutt or not can have health issues whether they are a mutt or a purebred. I am definitely not against pure bred dogs at all, but even pure bred dogs can be unhealthy due to over breeding, etc.


i did not say all mutts are unhealthy. where did i say that? i dont have anything against mutts but i do think it is ridiculous when pp say their dogs are designer when it is just a marketing term. what i said was, mutts are not HEALTHIER. pp seem to think mutts are healthier than pure breds. that is complete lie.

i was specifically referring to "designer" small dogs like a maltipoo who pay 5K for but really is a mutt. cross breeding small dogs like that is inherently dangerous, bc u dont know what you are getting. there is no such thing as designer dogs, only designer bags. in most cases, pp who cross breed on purpose to create "designer" dogs end up creating very small dogs who die before their 1st birthday.

i think it is great that you rescued dogs, and that they are healthy. i would have adopted too if it were not for my DH's severe allergies to dander, which basically limited my choice of breed..before marriage, i also adopted 2 dogs who were all healthy until their last days. but the truth is, no matter how much we preach about spay, neuter and adopt- there will always be pp who want to buy dogs, no? for those pp, i say buy from a show breeder.
 

miss alice

Dogs Rule!!
O.G.
May 24, 2006
3,732
8
yes, unneutered male dogs will want to mate with any unspayed female (who is in heat) naturally, that is why it is SO IMPORTANT TO SPAY AND NEUTER.


--Ummm, this is not the only method; a leash, a fence and supervision are also effective birth control methods. I have been using these birth control methods on my dogs for 15 years, with no accidental breedings occurring.

Only irresponsible pet owners would not neuter and spay their pets.

--I disagree. See above. But yes, pet owners who are incapable of the responsibility of owning an intact pet should castrate them.

Also, only irresponsible pet owners would let their unaltered pets to be near the vicinity of other unaltered dogs. if you know you have an unspayed female, you need to keep her away from other dogs when she is in heat,

--Agreed.

and any unneutered males need to wear belly bands. so, what you described about your uncle's dogs wont happen..

--A belly band will not prevent a dog from breeding a *****. It only prevents his marking in the house successfuly. The only solution is separation while the ***** is in heat - typically 3 weeks; I am so paranoid, I usually keep them separated for 4 weeks, just to ease my mind.

--I am a proud breeder, who only breeds the best to the best, health, conformation and temperament-wise.

P.S. Strictly speaking, there is no such thing as "forced breeding". If a ***** is not at the right time she will not accept the dog. Sometimes, even if the time is right, she hates the dog picked for her, and will not breed with him. The only way to "force" a breeding is to use artificial insemination. I did that once when the male was a spectacular dog, but he had died; I saved his semen at a facility in liquid nitrogen, and he bacame a father after he died.

Chessmont, you are right, there are many many birth control methods out there, more than i wrote down, but my PRINCIPLE is responsible PET ownership- which is to spay, and neuter. If you disagree w/ that principle, than that is a different story. If all you want to do is nit pick me b/c i failed to mention the countless other possible creative ways of birth control methods, then i am just going to stop writing and defer to you b/c frankly, i can not sit here and think of the millions of ways of birth control. i am speaking strictly of princples here.

lastly, please re read what i wrote about force breeding. i meant force breeding as in situations where unhealthy females are bred soley for the purrpose for HUMAN greed to produce small puppies. dogs do not have the choice in this scenario. it is called FORCED b/c the choice is only for the human, not the dog. the dog has no choice to "accept" or "Deny" b/c it is kept in wire cages and never socialized. it is a prisoner, only purpose is for greedy humans to use it as a tool to breed to make money. that is called force breeding to me.

lastly, do you show your dogs?
 

Drop Dead Red

DROP DEAD RED
Aug 30, 2008
279
0
RESCUE RESCUE RESCUE!!! ALL dogs that come from puppy stores are from PUPPY MILLS!!! And there is NO such thing as a TEA CUP's come on people you are paying over priced rates for runts, thats right runts..Think about it..And all this dog breed crossing makes me sick..There is enough unwanted animals in the world!!!
 

lizavet8

"Ruffian"
O.G.
May 3, 2007
1,223
78
Ladies, please be reasonable. Yes, there are a lot of unwanted dogs in the world. My DH and I are doing foster care, and there are a lot of UNWANTED CHILDREN in the world too. So if a member wants to buy a puppy from a responsible breeder, I think it's their right. We have to let each other have a little breahing room to express our opinions and allow that there are other views besides our own. There are a lot of wonderful breeders out there.
 
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