Confused about Stiff Phantom Palmelato/Natural Calfskin

Riima

O.G.
Feb 17, 2009
188
21


Hi ladies, I'm hoping you all can help shed some light into my predicament.

So from blog post in spottedfashion and some posts by Nitskulei and Chloeglamour I had assumed that the Phantom bag Cameron Diaz was carrying is a Palmelato leather. So I placed an order to the Celine boutique in New York to ship it to me in San Francisco (the SA told me it was Palmelato).

However, the first time I looked at it I feel like it's not as stiff as Nitskulei's phantom and the piping is not as dark. I decided to check out my local Barney's and apparently they have one that looks exactly like Cameron Diaz's phantom.



But according to this picture posted by Unoma or Nitskulei, the left bag is the natural calfskin, and the right one is the Palmelato.

But in my case, it's completely the opposite, my palmelato phantom that was sent to me (with 18RM color code, same with Nitskulei's and Chloeglamour's code) was identical to the left one, and the one in Barney's with the 04LU color code is the right one. And from looking in the Celine Reference Library thread, 04LU is a Natural Calfskin Leather. (a helpful post by cottonblanc)

So right now I'm completely clueless, I don't know what's going on. Is it an error in labeling the bags? Did the NY SA duped me into buying the old supple calfskin phantom? And the price of those two are the same, $2950 both for 18RM and 04LU

I'm hoping someone can explain to me about this, pardon my cluelessness, I'm a Celine newbie lol
 
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ikim23

i <3 my bags
O.G.
Nov 7, 2007
715
2
Toronto
i believe cotonblanc has clarified before that the phantom does not come in palmelato as the "palmelato" leather for the phantom is actually called natural calfskin. but i may be wrong, so perhaps he can chime in on the matter.
 

porpentine

Member
Dec 16, 2011
299
104
Sydney, Australia
Hi there,

I had the same confusion! I did some research, and what I learned was that to date the phantom only comes in 'natural calfskin', not palmelato.

I asked a few questions, and learned that there are 4 different kinds of super high grade leather that celine does:

Box calf: this is the most delicate and only comes in the box bag, it is a hand-boarded leather.
Natural calfskin: this is a traditional vegetal tanning of the hide, and has a silky, and dense feel. I believe they make phantom and trapeze in this.
Palmelato: this is a another hand-boarded calf, close to box calf but not quite the same. It is less stiff/rigid than the box calf and polished, but not the same 'glazed' effect as the boxcalf. They only do the mini in this (for now - I'm hoping for a palmelato micro!)
Satin calfskin: this is as the name suggests, as satiny feel and slightly more matte. I think it is used on the case bags. maybe the Edge bag too?

So, unless I am very much mistaken, my guess is that many SAs are just using the word 'palmelato' generically to mean a higher grade leather, and not differentiating between the natural calfskin (on the phantom) and the palmelato. (on the mini). But each of these leathers is higher grade than the standard, each in their different ways.

The subtle variations we have seen may be explained by the fact that the natural calfskin is done on traditional vegetal tanning with natural colour variation in batches of leather.

I think there were also improvements in the detail design which they implemented between seasons. Eg, I have noticed that the sealing on the lips of my 2011 natural calfskin is different from that on the newer Luggage colour phantoms, but is otherwise identical. It seems that the colour code has changed, but when I bought it, it was the same price ($2950) in the USA.

Looking at the pictured bags, I believe they are both the higher grade natural calfskin, not supple calfskin but perhaps you might want to post some pictures of your bag to double check?

I hope that helps!
 
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Riima

O.G.
Feb 17, 2009
188
21
Thank you for all your insight, ladies! I too had thought that the SA in NY might just throwing the word Palmelato around.
I gave the Phantom 18RM I got from NY to my sister to sell (therefore I can't take pictures :sad: ) and I have purchased the stiffer phantom 04LU from Barney's.

I'm now thinking that my 18RM phantom was wrongly labeled, the tags were not attached to the bag when I got it, the tags were cut off and sitting there at the bottom of the bag beneath the stuffing.

My 18RM is completely identical to the left phantom in the comparison picture ^
It has a darker suede lining compared to the 04LU, the leather smell is much more pungent (almost smell like a horse), and the suede is also much more velvety to the touch, the leather however felt as soft, they both felt like newborn baby skin.

I'm guessing that the correctly labeled 18RM are suppose to be identical to my 04LU, perhaps Celine changed the code for different season?

All I know is that I'm happy with my 04LU that is identical to other posters palmelato phantom bags, even though I'm still confused about the color code and the type of leather lol.
 

nycaesthete

Member
Mar 18, 2012
287
0
New York, NY
Hi there,

I had the same confusion! I did some research, and what I learned was that to date the phantom only comes in 'natural calfskin', not palmelato.

I asked a few questions, and learned that there are 4 different kinds of super high grade leather that celine does:

Box calf: this is the most delicate and only comes in the box bag, it is a hand-boarded leather.
Natural calfskin: this is a traditional vegetal tanning of the hide, and has a silky, and dense feel. I believe they make phantom and trapeze in this.
Palmelato: this is a another hand-boarded calf, close to box calf but not quite the same. It is less stiff/rigid than the box calf and polished, but not the same 'glazed' effect as the boxcalf. They only do the mini in this (for now - I'm hoping for a palmelato micro!)
Satin calfskin: this is as the name suggests, as satiny feel and slightly more matte. I think it is used on the case bags. maybe the Edge bag too?

So, unless I am very much mistaken, my guess is that many SAs are just using the word 'palmelato' generically to mean a higher grade leather, and not differentiating between the natural calfskin (on the phantom) and the palmelato. (on the mini). But each of these leathers is higher grade than the standard, each in their different ways.

The subtle variations we have seen may be explained by the fact that the natural calfskin is done on traditional vegetal tanning with natural colour variation in batches of leather.

I think there were also improvements in the detail design which they implemented between seasons. Eg, I have noticed that the sealing on the lips of my 2011 natural calfskin is different from that on the newer Luggage colour phantoms, but is otherwise identical. It seems that the colour code has changed, but when I bought it, it was the same price ($2950) in the USA.

Looking at the pictured bags, I believe they are both the higher grade natural calfskin, not supple calfskin but perhaps you might want to post some pictures of your bag to double check?

I hope that helps!
Great info, Porpentine!
 

Damier Dork

Member
Jan 15, 2010
570
1
New York
So glad we finally have clarification! The reason I was turned on to the Phantom in the Natural Calfskin in Luggage Tan is because it ages beautifully with wear and my handles have started to darken from use.
 

jcposh

Member
Jan 31, 2013
19
0
Los Angeles, CA
I am trying to buy the Palmelato but the SA told me it is not available for the phantoms...

May I ask where you bought your Phantom and in what color it is, is it the Caramel brown phantom?

Thanks! Im a celine newbie myself,
JC



Hi ladies, I'm hoping you all can help shed some light into my predicament.

So from blog post in spottedfashion and some posts by Nitskulei and Chloeglamour I had assumed that the Phantom bag Cameron Diaz was carrying is a Palmelato leather. So I placed an order to the Celine boutique in New York to ship it to me in San Francisco (the SA told me it was Palmelato).

However, the first time I looked at it I feel like it's not as stiff as Nitskulei's phantom and the piping is not as dark. I decided to check out my local Barney's and apparently they have one that looks exactly like Cameron Diaz's phantom.



But according to this picture posted by Unoma or Nitskulei, the left bag is the natural calfskin, and the right one is the Palmelato.

But in my case, it's completely the opposite, my palmelato phantom that was sent to me (with 18RM color code, same with Nitskulei's and Chloeglamour's code) was identical to the left one, and the one in Barney's with the 04LU color code is the right one. And from looking in the Celine Reference Library thread, 04LU is a Natural Calfskin Leather. (a helpful post by cottonblanc)

So right now I'm completely clueless, I don't know what's going on. Is it an error in labeling the bags? Did the NY SA duped me into buying the old supple calfskin phantom? And the price of those two are the same, $2950 both for 18RM and 04LU

I'm hoping someone can explain to me about this, pardon my cluelessness, I'm a Celine newbie lol
 

Riima

O.G.
Feb 17, 2009
188
21
I am trying to buy the Palmelato but the SA told me it is not available for the phantoms...

May I ask where you bought your Phantom and in what color it is, is it the Caramel brown phantom?

Thanks! Im a celine newbie myself,
JC
JCposh, I might not be the best person to ask since there was a lot of confusion during my purchase as well. But all I know right now is that my phantom that I feel is exactly similar to Cameron Diaz's is color coded 04LU. Try asking the SA by that code :smile:

This is my so called 'palmelato' phantom, cottonblanc posted a full info in the reference thread. According to the post, my bag is natural calfskin leather so I don't know anything anymore lol.

http://forum.purseblog.com/celine-r...e-reference-thread-771238-2.html#post23627967

ps: I bought it in Barneys San Francisco for $2950 before tax :smile:
 
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cotonblanc

Member
Aug 9, 2011
8,837
95
I am trying to buy the Palmelato but the SA told me it is not available for the phantoms...

May I ask where you bought your Phantom and in what color it is, is it the Caramel brown phantom?

Thanks! Im a celine newbie myself,
JC
JCposh, I might not be the best person to ask since there was a lot of confusion during my purchase as well. But all I know right now is that my phantom that I feel is exactly similar to Cameron Diaz's is color coded 04LU. Try asking the SA by that code :smile:

This is my so called 'palmelato' phantom, cottonblanc posted a full info in the reference thread. According to the post, my bag is natural calfskin leather so I don't know anything anymore lol.

http://forum.purseblog.com/celine-r...e-reference-thread-771238-2.html#post23627967

ps: I bought it in Barneys San Francisco for $2950 before tax :smile:
You can also get her to check if the item code has LCD in it. LCD refers to Natural Calfskin. I have yet to see a Palmelato Phantom Luggage in a Céline lookbook, so far only Natural Calfskin as the thicker variety of leather.
 

jcposh

Member
Jan 31, 2013
19
0
Los Angeles, CA
here's the code sent to me by the SA



Its confusing since it is 18RM color code but on the bottom, the description says it is "Luggage Phantom Nat Calf" so now I don't know which is which... :sweatdrop::thinking:

Confused, here's the pic of the purse that he sent...



I am inlove but considering the fact that this kind of material scratches easily (DOES IT?!) makes me want to take a step back and wait for the O4LU.... SO now I can't decide whether to purchase it or not...

HELP!!!!!
 

Riima

O.G.
Feb 17, 2009
188
21
here's the code sent to me by the SA



Its confusing since it is 18RM color code but on the bottom, the description says it is "Luggage Phantom Nat Calf" so now I don't know which is which... :sweatdrop::thinking:

Confused, here's the pic of the purse that he sent...



I am inlove but considering the fact that this kind of material scratches easily (DOES IT?!) makes me want to take a step back and wait for the O4LU.... SO now I can't decide whether to purchase it or not...

HELP!!!!!
JCposh, that's the phantom I originally had but then I exchanged it with the 04LU. I've held the two bags and studied it, and I can tell you that the 04LU retain shape better since the leather is stiffer. I say if you can, you should wait for the 04LU but honestly they look almost identical unless you put them side by side.

As for the scratching, yes if you're not careful it does scratch easily but just buff it out with the insides cloth of the dust bag and the scratches usually disappear :smile:
 

Riima

O.G.
Feb 17, 2009
188
21
Yep that's it, and it is a little lighter, maybe because the leather has more sheen to it. The suede lining is also lighter in 04LU.

Let me know on which one you decided on getting. happy shopping!!

Ps. If you want a comparison picture, the photo in my original post is exactly how the 18RM and the 04LU compared side by side.
 

jcposh

Member
Jan 31, 2013
19
0
Los Angeles, CA
Yep that's it, and it is a little lighter, maybe because the leather has more sheen to it. The suede lining is also lighter in 04LU.

Let me know on which one you decided on getting. happy shopping!!

Ps. If you want a comparison picture, the photo in my original post is exactly how the 18RM and the 04LU compared side by side.
Riima, I will definitely let u know. Thank u so much for all the helpful info... Im a little picky since this is my first ever celine bag... And i've been thinking about getting it since last yr. Now i think i finally found THE one. Lol. Will post it once i get it. Soooo excited!!!!
 

jcposh

Member
Jan 31, 2013
19
0
Los Angeles, CA
Riima, I will definitely let u know. Thank u so much for all the helpful info... Im a little picky since this is my first ever celine bag... And i've been thinking about getting it since last yr. Now i think i finally found THE one. Lol. Will post it once i get it. Soooo excited!!!!
This may sound really funny but i ordered the 18rm that my SA has been sending me pics of. And when i got it its the 04LU but not like the pic on the right of your orig post. Theres no sheen to it. The piping looks the same but the feel is as velvety as you described the 18rm... Talk about CONFUSION...
They couldnt tamper with the tags, could they? Cos he knows i was looking for the 04LU and thinking of returning the 18RM... Hmmmm...