Can someone help me understand tanneries and their leathers?

[MidlifeFashionPrincess]

Apologies up front. This is laboriously long and possibly pointless. Read on at your peril.

******
I am always impressed at the wealth of knowledge here at tPF. I do not understand the tannery situation, but some of you certainly do.

Sometimes, I hear that this label or that uses the same tannery as Hermes, or such-and-such uses Hermes or Loewe rejects and whatnot. How would one know? Or rather, what do we know as a collective?

A few years ago, I went into Tandy Leather to buy something for my daughter, and they had large pieces of leather for sale (shoulders, I think). It was delicious, so I bought a piece. I still haven't sewn it into anything, but I will. The cashier (who had no idea that I collect LV) told me it was overstock from Louis Vuitton. I wondered if that was true.

Last summer, I was in a different city buying something else for the same daughter at Tandy, and struck up a conversation with the 2 guys working the front. I mentioned to them my beautiful leather piece and asked if it was true that Tandy got LV leftovers, and they confirmed that it did happen on occasion. Then they said other nonsense that was straight up incorrect about LV bags and leathers, so I scratched my head and departed confused.

So, what the heck is going on here? I have read (here and elsewhere) that Maison Takuya, Loewe, and Moynat use Hermes' tannery. Does that mean they are all using the same leathers? I have, or have had, or will have soon, something from all of these houses, but the leathers are very different. I obviously cannot compare a Hermes Bastia with a Moynat Pauline. Entirely different leathers for different applications.

And what of my beloved Tod's T-ring bucket bag? It's nothing like every other Tod's I've ever had. That leather is absolutely scrumptious.

Where is my question here?

Heck, even I'm lost in this jumble.

Jump in if you'd like. I'm just trying to understand tanneries and their leathers. Maybe it doesn't matter at all. Maybe it's the next step in understanding luxury bags. What should I know, friends?

 

[A bottle of Red]

That's really interesting, I also wonder how they know who uses leather from where . Maybe companies advertise it?

 

[papertiger]

Gucci have their own tanneries. As well as creating leathers (and products) for other Kering brands (Bal, McQueen and Saint Laurent) they sell leather and/or make bags and other leather items for external (Kering) brands.

50% of Gucci NET profit comes from B2B and not B2C and Gucci provides approx 50% NET profit for Kering. So, Kering make 25% of all income from Gucci's business(es) supplying/making non-Gucci products (I hope the way I've written this make sense).

 

[AnnaLou]

Apologies up front. This is laboriously long and possibly pointless. Read on at your peril.

******
I am always impressed at the wealth of knowledge here at tPF. I do not understand the tannery situation, but some of you certainly do.

Sometimes, I hear that this label or that uses the same tannery as Hermes, or such-and-such uses Hermes or Loewe rejects and whatnot. How would one know? Or rather, what do we know as a collective?

A few years ago, I went into Tandy Leather to buy something for my daughter, and they had large pieces of leather for sale (shoulders, I think). It was delicious, so I bought a piece. I still haven't sewn it into anything, but I will. The cashier (who had no idea that I collect LV) told me it was overstock from Louis Vuitton. I wondered if that was true.

Last summer, I was in a different city buying something else for the same daughter at Tandy, and struck up a conversation with the 2 guys working the front. I mentioned to them my beautiful leather piece and asked if it was true that Tandy got LV leftovers, and they confirmed that it did happen on occasion. Then they said other nonsense that was straight up incorrect about LV bags and leathers, so I scratched my head and departed confused.

So, what the heck is going on here? I have read (here and elsewhere) that Maison Takuya, Loewe, and Moynat use Hermes' tannery. Does that mean they are all using the same leathers? I have, or have had, or will have soon, something from all of these houses, but the leathers are very different. I obviously cannot compare a Hermes Bastia with a Moynat Pauline. Entirely different leathers for different applications.

And what of my beloved Tod's T-ring bucket bag? It's nothing like every other Tod's I've ever had. That leather is absolutely scrumptious.

Where is my question here?

Heck, even I'm lost in this jumble.

Jump in if you'd like. I'm just trying to understand tanneries and their leathers. Maybe it doesn't matter at all. Maybe it's the next step in understanding luxury bags. What should I know, friends?

Sound like intelligent and thought provoking questions and ponderings. I have nothing to offer except an interest to follow the thread, and also a question. Do you sew leather? If so, do you make your own bags? (okay, that was two questions).

 

[indiaink]

I went down the rabbit hole and searched for ‘tanneries’ everywhere in the forum and man, there’s a ton of info.

Years ago, a local leather goods manufacturer went out of business and I had the opportunity to buy a ton of different leather pieces. What I found most interesting was the paper labels on the back of the hides - identifying color, where it was going, lot number, etc. I’ve since wished I’d bought more at the time now that I know what I know. Once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, that was.

In regard to Tandy - most of the guys I’ve dealt with know what they know and have no idea about the luxury purses we discuss here. Their holy grail is vintage Coach, and we all know why. . If you ever get a chance to visit Minnesota, stop in at the Roseville store and ask for Johann.

ETA: All leather starts the same, and has to be finished in a tannery or it turns into a rotting mess. The tanning process is generally the same, and a more disgusting thing you’ll never experience. What sets the end product apart is the end finishing process. (duh, right? Now you’ve got me rambling).

 

[KellyObsessed]

It's true, you can even purchase leather from the tannery that tans barenia for Hermes. Tanneries Haas, sells to leather craft people and you can purchase skins from Rocky Mountain Leather Supply in the US.

 

[Christofle]

It's true, you can even purchase leather from the tannery that tans barenia for Hermes. Tanneries Haas, sells to leather craft people and you can purchase skins from Rocky Mountain Leather Supply in the US.

Historically, H used two different versions of barenia some from Haas (Novonappa) and some from Degerman (Baranil).

 

[Christofle]

Apologies up front. This is laboriously long and possibly pointless. Read on at your peril.

******
I am always impressed at the wealth of knowledge here at tPF. I do not understand the tannery situation, but some of you certainly do.

Sometimes, I hear that this label or that uses the same tannery as Hermes, or such-and-such uses Hermes or Loewe rejects and whatnot. How would one know? Or rather, what do we know as a collective?

A few years ago, I went into Tandy Leather to buy something for my daughter, and they had large pieces of leather for sale (shoulders, I think). It was delicious, so I bought a piece. I still haven't sewn it into anything, but I will. The cashier (who had no idea that I collect LV) told me it was overstock from Louis Vuitton. I wondered if that was true.

Last summer, I was in a different city buying something else for the same daughter at Tandy, and struck up a conversation with the 2 guys working the front. I mentioned to them my beautiful leather piece and asked if it was true that Tandy got LV leftovers, and they confirmed that it did happen on occasion. Then they said other nonsense that was straight up incorrect about LV bags and leathers, so I scratched my head and departed confused.

So, what the heck is going on here? I have read (here and elsewhere) that Maison Takuya, Loewe, and Moynat use Hermes' tannery. Does that mean they are all using the same leathers? I have, or have had, or will have soon, something from all of these houses, but the leathers are very different. I obviously cannot compare a Hermes Bastia with a Moynat Pauline. Entirely different leathers for different applications.

And what of my beloved Tod's T-ring bucket bag? It's nothing like every other Tod's I've ever had. That leather is absolutely scrumptious.

Where is my question here?

Heck, even I'm lost in this jumble.

Jump in if you'd like. I'm just trying to understand tanneries and their leathers. Maybe it doesn't matter at all. Maybe it's the next step in understanding luxury bags. What should I know, friends?

To partially answer your question, tanneries produce a wide variety of finishes across many types of leathers. So it is possible for multiple brands to purchase from the same tanneries without actually buying the same leather. (Certain finishes can be exclusive but this isn't often the case due to costs of R&D). There are also several grades of leather and those that don't pass house standards end up as overstock sold in bulk at lower prices.

Just think of the often referenced "barenia leather" which is actually available in numerous colours but only a handful are featured on bags via Hermès.

Another important point is that two leather's from the same lot can have entirely different "feels" on a bag depending on skiving (thickness), and presence of reinforcements within the interlining.

There's also an incredible number of tanneries across the world...

This trade show is a leather lovers dream and it is where many artisans go each year to find inspiration amongst newly developed finishes being featured.

International Leather Fair in Italy | LINEAPELLE

International Leather Fair in Italy | Lineapelle international Leather Fair in Italy. From 1981, the most important fair of leather.

www.lineapelle-fair.it

 

[Bag peace]

Another important point is that two leather's from the same lot can have entirely different "feels" on a bag depending on skiving (thickness), and presence of reinforcements within the interlining.

Just to add to this, two hides from the same lot can feel different even before skiving. These are natural materials and each piece can take the 'finish' differently, so they may look and feel different even though they're the same grade and type of leather.

 

[MidlifeFashionPrincess]

Sound like intelligent and thought provoking questions and ponderings. I have nothing to offer except an interest to follow the thread, and also a question. Do you sew leather? If so, do you make your own bags? (okay, that was two questions).

I am a very Unaccomplished sewer! I've never sewn leather. Recently, I was in Dallas and went to the fabric district (small, but fun) and bought some beautiful matching dupion silk for the make believe leather bag I will someday sew. If you google Origami Market Bag, you'll find tutorials for a very simple bag and I think that's what I want to make and I want to line it in the silk. That said, is the aspect of sewing even a simple lined bag that terrifies me.

I have someone in mind to help me. I hope we can work on this soon.

I do know that you need a special leather needle to do the work, or else you will create a perforated bag that will come apart eventually. But that's all I know about sewing leather.

If I ever accomplish this, I'll post a photo.

 

[MidlifeFashionPrincess]

I went down the rabbit hole and searched for ‘tanneries’ everywhere in the forum and man, there’s a ton of info.

Years ago, a local leather goods manufacturer went out of business and I had the opportunity to buy a ton of different leather pieces. What I found most interesting was the paper labels on the back of the hides - identifying color, where it was going, lot number, etc. I’ve since wished I’d bought more at the time now that I know what I know. Once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, that was.

In regard to Tandy - most of the guys I’ve dealt with know what they know and have no idea about the luxury purses we discuss here. Their holy grail is vintage Coach, and we all know why. . If you ever get a chance to visit Minnesota, stop in at the Roseville store and ask for Johann.

ETA: All leather starts the same, and has to be finished in a tannery or it turns into a rotting mess. The tanning process is generally the same, and a more disgusting thing you’ll never experience. What sets the end product apart is the end finishing process. (duh, right? Now you’ve got me rambling).

There aren't enough emojis for this post!

Fascinating about the leather purchase. How fun.

Of course they love Coach! Haha! And so do I (vintage). The stuff they said about LV was so wrong it was funny. And it all ended with their indignation that LV sells these terribly thin, cheap leather bags for upwards of 2 or $300.

I told them that LV bags sell for quite a bit more than $300 these days.

I did not have the heart to tell them the bags they are talking about are coated canvas.

 

[Christofle]

There aren't enough emojis for this post!

Fascinating about the leather purchase. How fun.

Of course they love Coach! Haha! And so do I (vintage). The stuff they said about LV was so wrong it was funny. And it all ended with their indignation that LV sells these terribly thin, cheap leather bags for upwards of 2 or $300.

I told them that LV bags sell for quite a bit more than $300 these days.

I did not have the heart to tell them the bags they are talking about are coated canvas.

It doesn’t surprise me, there’s even a surprising number of LV owners that I’ve encountered who didn’t realize their bags weren’t actually made in leather.

One even asked which leather cream to use on their neverfull (the canvas portion).

 

[papertiger]

It doesn’t surprise me, there’s even a surprising number of LV owners that I’ve encountered who didn’t realize their bags weren’t actually made in leather.

One even asked which leather cream to use on their neverfull (the canvas portion).

Disclaimer: I don't know anything about new LV, but it's a shame LV is only known for their canvas, when LV do/did leather, it was often very good (thinking about the old Sophias and their Normade leather).

 

[Christofle]

Disclaimer: I don't know anything about new LV, but it's a shame LV is only known for their canvas, when LV do/did leather, it was often very good (thinking about the old Sophias and their Normade leather).

True! Their goat (Suhali) and lambskin(Antheia) are equally nice too.

 

[Bag peace]

If you google Origami Market Bag, you'll find tutorials for a very simple bag and I think that's what I want to make and I want to line it in the silk. That said, is the aspect of sewing even a simple lined bag that terrifies me.

I have someone in mind to help me. I hope we can work on this soon.

I do know that you need a special leather needle to do the work, or else you will create a perforated bag that will come apart eventually. But that's all I know about sewing leather.

That is a lovely design to make for your first bag. You're right, you need leather needles, but also special thread and stitching prongs (neither are expensive, but both are essential).
The prongs are to make holes in the leather for the needle and thread to go through. Leather is dense, not like fabric. You can't push a needle through like you would when stitching cotton or silk.

Saddle stitching is an art form, imo. Everyone can do it but, to get each stitch even is incredibly difficult and takes a lot of practice. Getting perfect stitches doesn't matter when you're making your own for fun, but it is why I value artisans who hand-make bags. They make it look easy but it's very difficult to get the stitches to look perfect.
It's important when you do start that you learn to saddle stitch and don't just do a regular straight stitch. The reason is that it prevents the bag from opening at the seams when it's full. It also means that one popped stitch won't cause the others to unravel. It will make your bag actually functional, so it's worth the extra effort.

If I ever accomplish this, I'll post a photo.

I can't wait to see it, whenever you get the chance to make it. I'm sure it'll be beautiful.