Buyer Wants to Avoid Customs Tax

[SollyTia]

This is an issue which crops up over and over. Many of us are in situations because we can only buy from the US etc.

I think many people don't understand the consequences. In a similar way I once saw a fellow employee, shaking the life out of a vending machine to save 40p for a Kit Kat. Such a petty incident, but, he could have lost his job over it!!!! Worth It ?

Customs forms in every country in the world, are official documents, and it is illegal to falsify the documentation.

If the seller agrees to this, and the parcel goes astray, who is going to lose out? The seller.

There are ways that you can send items and get exemption on the duty. Once again, you have to sign a declaration, and submit to Customs.

It is very unfair to the seller to put them in this position.

 

[Oh Donna!]

Customs fees are the buyers responsibility. And disclosing a false amount on customs forms is against the law.

If the package is lost in the mail for some reason and you said its only $80.00, guess who really takes a loss? YOU.

Disclose the full amount.

 

[print*model]

I was going to say, i don't think its the seller responsibility if something goes missing, i am not 100% sure though!

And I just received a balenciaga bag from Canada and the seller just put down PURSE $100, so i didnt pay any tax =). I think as long as you say that you as the seller are taking no responsibility if the package is lost then i really do not see any problem xx

Nope. Not true. It's always 100% the seller's responsibility if something gets lost. It doesn't matter if a seller states that they will bear the responsibility if the package gets lost or not. There is no such thing as making a deal with your buyer that you will not be responsible if the package gets lost. All the buyer has to do is inform PayPal that they don't have their item. PayPal will check for delivery on-line and if they see it's lost or undelivered, they will give a 100% refund back to the buyer who will then be on their merry little way with all of their money back.

Thus begins the nightmare for the seller...........

The only person who can ever file a claim for a lost package is the originator of the shipment. The seller. The person who possesses the shipping receipt. The buyer can not do this.

That is part of the reason why a seller should fill out those forms honestly. If the package gets lost, again, the buyer need only file a dispute thru PayPal to get a 100% full refund. The seller will then have to fight to get back whatever LITTLE amount they declared and insured the item for on the customs declaration. Can you imagine how much $$ you can lose?!? You sold a bag for $800 and then "helped" your buyer avoid paying tax by under-valuing it for $25.00. Guess how much you are going to get back? Not $800.00.

When a buyer asks you to under-value a customs form to save them on paying their taxes, you are not only helping THEM break the law but YOU are breaking the law yourself by falsifying a government document AND you are taking the risk of losing not only your item but your money as well.

Way too risky for me. I love my international buyers but I say if you don't want to pay those expensive taxes then don't purchase from outside of your country on eBay. It's that simple. It's not fair to ask someone to take such a risk for you.

Stepping down from my soapbox now.

 

[skigirl73]

Nope. Not true. It's always 100% the seller's responsibility if something gets lost. It doesn't matter if a seller states that they will bear the responsibility if the package gets lost or not. There is no such thing as making a deal with your buyer that you will not be responsible if the package gets lost. All the buyer has to do is inform PayPal that they don't have their item. PayPal will check for delivery on-line and if they see it's lost or undelivered, they will give a 100% refund back to the buyer who will then be on their merry little way with all of their money back.

Thus begins the nightmare for the seller...........

Thanks print*model! You sound like you know a lot about this from personal experience. And, it does all make sense. I also wondered if other eBay'ers were getting as many requests as I do to mark items for less on the customs forms. It seems like I was getting a ton of them for awhile. Then I ran into a couple of problems and decided it probably wasn't such a good idea anyway! And international buyers should know that they have to pay a tax and make a decision accordingly if they want to buy from the U.S. and be subject to that tax.

As far as who is responsible for the shipping, it totally makes sense that the seller is, although I was confused by a lot of listings that stated the seller is not responsible... I've worked in jobs where packages were lost and if we would try to blame it on the shipping company, the customer would always say that our company was the one to choose that shipping company, so we were responsible. I kind of wonder if a lot of these sellers have had a lost package yet. Sounds like they probably haven't! I've been pretty lucky with little problems. Did have one that I hope makes it back to me. Shipped something to Portugal and I screwed up the shipping address somehow. I shipped a new item to the buyer at no charge, but I really hope the one that I screwed up somehow makes it back. I know it takes forever!

Thanks for all of your advice. It has been very helpful!

 

[skigirl73]

Thanks for everyone's great advice! It's been very helpful!

 

[SophiaLee]

Don't do it. You are the one only one who loses in this situation. You can say you won't be responsible all you want but to an unconfirmed address all they have to do is file w/ PP and you're screwed. Then the only money that can be recouped is whatever you put on the insurance paper...you will be responsible for the rest.

 

[divahethr]

It's fraud and it's illegal. And since it's international I would be afraid since 9-11 that I would end up on a "no-fly" list if caught. I know that's probably far fetched, but you never know where falsifying documents might lead. Those taxes have got to suck.

 

[anasTa]

Hey people, have you ever once thought to tell the sellers to ship the ordered item like sending a free gift to us, as the buyers?

what I mean is we suppose each other with the sellers as our friends or relatives or brothers, etc., we purchase the items to their PayPal, and tell them to ship the items without any fee notice as to prevent the customs tax.

Just like in the real case that I tell my brother in the Netherlands to send a package to me in Tokyo, see without any fee notice as I won't pay the customs tax.

Again, it's like sending an item to our brothers usually

I'm still not sure whether that technique will work or not, just try haha. Perhaps any inputs for this technique will be highly appreciated. Thanks

 

[BeenBurned]

Hey people, have you ever once thought to tell the sellers to ship the ordered item like sending a free gift to us, as the buyers?

what I mean is we suppose each other with the sellers as our friends or relatives or brothers, etc., we purchase the items to their PayPal, and tell them to ship the items without any fee notice as to prevent the customs tax.

Just like in the real case that I tell my brother in the Netherlands to send a package to me in Tokyo, see without any fee notice as I won't pay the customs tax.

Again, it's like sending an item to our brothers usually

I'm still not sure whether that technique will work or not, just try haha. Perhaps any inputs for this technique will be highly appreciated. Thanks

A seller sending an item to a buyer as a gift is NOT the same as sending a gift to your brother.

As a seller, it's illegal to lie on a customs document and as a buyer, it's illegal (and against the rules) to request that a seller undervalue and/or lie on the customs form.

Buyers who purchase internationally need to be prepared and willing to pay any fees that are due to their government or they should limit their purchasing activity to sellers in their own country.

 

[happenstance]

This is why I love living in a border town that has multiple package receiving places on the US side that charge nominal fees for what they do. I just drive over and pick up my package, rarely, if the package doesn't cost too much and there are enough people in the car or if you carry whatever it is across, do you get dinged for taxes.

 

[daisyw]

If you don't declare and insure it for the full amount, should anything go wrong, you will have to take the loss. Telling the buyer it is their loss if that happens, means nothing. They could still open an item not received case. Declare the full amount unless you're willing to take the risk. I would tell the buyer that as stated in your listing, you are unable to lie on customs forms.

 

[BritAbroad]

Don't do it. As the seller, you assume all responsibility if the package gets lost. She need only file an Item Not Received dispute and PayPal will refund every penny she paid you for the item ($180). You, on the other hand, will get the "pleasure" of fighting with her customs to try to recover the smaller amount of $80.00 you declared and insured the item for. I never could understand why any seller would take that kind of risk for someone.

I don't care whether sellers put in their listing that if you don't buy insurance, it is your risk -- that is not true. The seller is responsible to deliver the package. If it gets "lost" the seller is responsible, not matter what they say.

For this reason, I calculate the price of insurance into the shipping price and note that insurance is included.

I also would never lie on customs forms. It is a fact of life that when you buy from outside your country you may incur taxes. You should not ask someone else to violate US laws so you can avoid paying taxes required by your country's laws.

This is accurate.
It is mail fraud and it's illegal. The seller can list "not responsible if no insurance purchased" but it means nothing. If the item goes missing the buyer can file and INR and the seller will only be able to claim the insured value - maybe. You have to still prove that value and if the Paypal invoice shows a different amount then you are exposed for fraud.
Even if it's a marked gift, you still have to prove its value.
Also, there is Customs to consider. I once bought bedding Internationally on ebay. I never asked the seller to undervalue it but she did. Customs randomly opened it and then seized it and contacted me asking to provide proof of payment, which of course showed I paid significantly more. Well then I got flagged, every single package I had delivered to me at that address afterwards got opened by Customs, it was a nightmare. The seller also got into trouble and was frustrated at me, but I never asked her to do it and she never told me she had.

I feel sorry for people who have to pay high taxes but I'm not willing to risk breaking the law to help them out. Why would I risk those repercussions for a complete stranger?
All you need is a pencil pushing Customs officer to open your package and demand proof of payment and you, the seller, risk charges - not the buyer.

 

[JustAgUrL]

I know this is an issue that really divides people, but I feel strongly that it is simply not fair to expect the seller to bear risks like this. As I understand it, the insurance serves the seller and so if anything goes wrong, the seller is vulnerable. I don't know whether a declaration that it is at the buyer's risk makes any difference and suspect it probably wouldn't if the worst happened and the parcel went astray. For that reason, if it were me, I would politely and regretfully insist that the item has to be declared and insured for its full value explaining to the buyer why this is so - I imagine others may disagree but I personally would rather lose a sale than worry myself to pieces about an expensive item going astray and the repercussions.

actually.... the seller has NO RISK in this.....

when you sign that customs slip you do it as an agent of the BUYER....

If the item does get caught in customs the ONLY thing that will happen
is that it MIGHT get reassessed ..... and then she will just have to prove what she did pay.......

Also, you can insure the item with a 3rd party Insurance and then you can insure it for what ever value you want to insure it for....... U Pik seems to be a popular one for this.....

 

[BritAbroad]

Nope. Not true. It's always 100% the seller's responsibility if something gets lost. It doesn't matter if a seller states that they will bear the responsibility if the package gets lost or not. There is no such thing as making a deal with your buyer that you will not be responsible if the package gets lost. All the buyer has to do is inform PayPal that they don't have their item. PayPal will check for delivery on-line and if they see it's lost or undelivered, they will give a 100% refund back to the buyer who will then be on their merry little way with all of their money back.

Thus begins the nightmare for the seller...........

The only person who can ever file a claim for a lost package is the originator of the shipment. The seller. The person who possesses the shipping receipt. The buyer can not do this.

That is part of the reason why a seller should fill out those forms honestly. If the package gets lost, again, the buyer need only file a dispute thru PayPal to get a 100% full refund. The seller will then have to fight to get back whatever LITTLE amount they declared and insured the item for on the customs declaration. Can you imagine how much $$ you can lose?!? You sold a bag for $800 and then "helped" your buyer avoid paying tax by under-valuing it for $25.00. Guess how much you are going to get back? Not $800.00.

When a buyer asks you to under-value a customs form to save them on paying their taxes, you are not only helping THEM break the law but YOU are breaking the law yourself by falsifying a government document AND you are taking the risk of losing not only your item but your money as well.

Way too risky for me. I love my international buyers but I say if you don't want to pay those expensive taxes then don't purchase from outside of your country on eBay. It's that simple. It's not fair to ask someone to take such a risk for you.

Stepping down from my soapbox now.

Very well said!

 

[JustAgUrL]

Mmm thats tricky, i think if the buyer wants to risk it then its up to her. I know its a bit naughty etc, but it will be on her head if something goes wrong.

Iquote]

Is that so? I always understood that insurance was for the seller. Also if you are the one signing the customs declaration form, isn't it the signatory who is liable for any misrepresentations?

NOPE.... that signature if a proxy for the buyer....

the sellers is signing on the IMPORTERS behalf..... so actually it is the BUYER who is in charge of the declaration.......