Buyer damaged item - claims not as described?

Kisa

paper or plastic?
O.G.
Jun 4, 2006
624
335
Hey everyone,

I've been ebaying my clothes and accessories for years without much trouble, until today.

I sold a pair of Ann D boots, I usually don't offer a return policy, however the buyer was initially concerned about the fit of the boots, and so I privately agreed to take them back if they were too small for her. My auction terms still specified all sales final. The buyer received the boots today and they did fit, however she has damaged them (apparently pulled out a rivet for one of the laces?) and is claiming that repairs have previously been done to the boots and damage is evident?

I did sell the boots as used and noted in my auction that there was some wear - however they had never been modified or repaired in any way. In fact they are the triple lace boots, so the laces themselves are largely non-functional, the boots have double zippers which leads me to wonder how she could have possibly damaged the rivet.

Does anyone experienced with paypal/ebay disputes have any idea how this might play out? I know ebay/paypal are usually inclined to side with the buyer in these cases. What are my options? I can't refund her this amount of money and take back damaged merchandise. :confused1:
 

Kisa

paper or plastic?
O.G.
Jun 4, 2006
624
335
I posted lots of pictures of the boots before I sold them. I don't know if I have a picture showing the rivet she broke though, they were the Ann D triple laces so there were about 200 rivets per boot. I'm afraid to ask her which rivet she broke or to ask for pictures in case she is a scam buyer and then simply pulls one of the rivets out.

She opened the dispute about 4 hours after initial contact, so it's escalated to ebay now. Should I be linking/posting my original photos in my case file?
 
Jun 25, 2008
19,665
11
I posted lots of pictures of the boots [How many is "lots"? Four, six, 12?] before I sold them. I don't know if I have a picture showing the rivet she broke though, they were the Ann D triple laces so there were about 200 rivets per boot. [Did you post a close up of that area?] I'm afraid to ask her which rivet she broke or to ask for pictures in case she is a scam buyer and then simply pulls one of the rivets out.

She opened the dispute about 4 hours after initial contact, so it's escalated to ebay now. Should I be linking/posting my original photos in my case file?

No. They will only look at the photos in the listing, to which they already have access. Those are the ones that count and why I was wondering if whatever she's claiming is broken can be seen not-broken in the photos.

Is it possible that this rivet came off the first time she tried the boots on? Could the boot had been on the verge of breaking when you sold them? Or are you convinced this is buyer's remorse and she just wants to return them? I understand why you don't want to ask for photos of the rivet or damage the buyer is claiming.

Have you responded to the dispute/claim? If you haven't, make sure you're as detailed as possible in making your case. If you included an adequate number of photos in the listing--showing the boots from all angles, as well as clear close-up shots--you could win this claim, but that also depends on what the buyer is actually claiming is wrong with the item/transaction.

What is the main basis of her claim: that the boot arrived broken, that it broke when she put it on, or that it had been previously repaired?


:smile:
 

Kisa

paper or plastic?
O.G.
Jun 4, 2006
624
335
No. They will only look at the photos in the listing, to which they already have access. Those are the ones that count and why I was wondering if whatever she's claiming is broken can be seen not-broken in the photos.

Is it possible that this rivet came off the first time she tried the boots on? Could the boot had been on the verge of breaking when you sold them? Or are you convinced this is buyer's remorse and she just wants to return them? I understand why you don't want to ask for photos of the rivet or damage the buyer is claiming.

Have you responded to the dispute/claim? If you haven't, make sure you're as detailed as possible in making your case. If you included an adequate number of photos in the listing--showing the boots from all angles, as well as clear close-up shots--you could win this claim, but that also depends on what the buyer is actually claiming is wrong with the item/transaction.

What is the main basis of her claim: that the boot arrived broken, that it broke when she put it on, or that it had been previously repaired?


:smile:

Thanks for your support and advice karmen!

I got a response from the buyer today that she brought them to a local shoe repair hospital and had them looked at. I got the name and number of the person who looked at them and spoke to that person today. It seems the main basis of her claim has become that the boots were SNAD due to previous repairs (that were never made) and that this shoe repair person agrees that one of the boots had a reinforcement stitch placed on one of the rivets. When I spoke to him he clarified that he was only able to give his opinion.

Interestingly - it's not the boot she damaged. I do believe that she damaged the boot trying them on, as she admittedly tried to lace them more tightly across the toes which is impossible and HIGHLY likely to pull the rivets out. The leather upper is stiff, but the placket for the rivets is very thin leather, attempting to pull the stiff leather in with the thin is unlikely to work well. They were meant to be zipped. Initially I thought it was buyers remorse, since before purchasing the boots she tried to convince me to agree to a return policy. Now I think she's just trying to return something she carelessly broke.

I've responded, and she's responded to me several times now since last night. She's also attempting to use the repairman's opinion of the design to further her claim, saying that he said it was likely the rest of the rivets would pop out with further wear due to torque on the laces.

My listing had about 6 pictures concentrating on the rivets, but none of them show any whipstitching or glue, they're not really detailed enough for that. I did also have an identical pair of the boots which had reinforcement stitching on the rivets.
 
Jun 25, 2008
19,665
11
"main basis of her claim has become that the boots were SNAD due to previous repairs (that were never made)...Initially I thought it was buyers remorse, since before purchasing the boots she tried to convince me to agree to a return policy. Now I think she's just trying to return something she carelessly broke."

I assume you explained this in your reply to the claim, and that's all you can do. The opinion of the shoe repair man is not supposed to influence PP's deicision, but it depends on who's handling your claim. Have you called PP?
 

Kisa

paper or plastic?
O.G.
Jun 4, 2006
624
335
I haven't called paypal because the case is still at the ebay stage of things, didn't think pp could step in at this point? Apparently ebay has rolled out a new dispute resolution policy just this week.

http://tamebay.com/2009/11/ebay-take-buyer-complaints-process-away-from-paypal.html

She just elevated her case to the "customer support representative decision" option. She did update me before with information contrary to what the repair shop told me on the phone. She's now claiming that the "previous repairs" were done to the same boot, opposite the rivet she tore out. I guess at this point I'll have to wait and see what happens before taking further action. Do you know which specific paypal department is the best to call?

Thanks again Karmen :hugs:
 
Jun 25, 2008
19,665
11
eBay launched its own Resolution Center a couple of months ago. Buyers who pay via PP are supposed to go to PP's RC, but for now at least eBay is taking in those disputes as well, so buyers using PP can go to either one.

Do you get to reply to the new spin she gave the claim? If you catch her lying, you should point that out in your replies. Since the claim is at eBay's RC, I would contact eBay, not PP, if you have any questions.


:welcome:
 
Apr 24, 2006
435
7
I'm sorry this has happened to you- I always worry for few days following delivery of an item that a buyer may come back with a false claim.

I just listed a pair of those boots too, now I'm scared someone will buy them and pull something like that on me.
 

Kisa

paper or plastic?
O.G.
Jun 4, 2006
624
335
I don't get to reply anymore, so hopefully the customer service rep will actually read the conversation we've been having so far and notice that the story has changed about 4 times since she opened the case. Do you know if paypal or ebay can debit directly from my credit card or bank account?

Sparkledust: Good luck in your sale! This is the first time I've ran into these problems. Hopefully yours will go better.
 
Jun 25, 2008
19,665
11
No they can't. PP can only touch your PP account, not your bank or CC account. For details, check out your PP user agreement; there you will find all the fine print about this process.

Well, it's now in the hands of eBay/PP, and they are not consistent with their rulings, so anything can happen. Keep us posted!

smiley-signs003.gif
 

Kisa

paper or plastic?
O.G.
Jun 4, 2006
624
335
Just wanted to update my thread! I got a response from Trust & Safety today with a contact email and phone number to call. I won the case before I needed to use it though. No details were provided by the customer service rep. Hopefully there won't be a chargeback now!

Thanks for all the support ladies! :drinkup:
 
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