Buyer claims item has been altered and not new and filed a chargeback - please help!

malish

Member
May 26, 2007
120
0
Hi everyone - I was hoping to get some positive outcomes of chargeback decisions. I sold a new with tags Chanel jacket on ebay back in February. The jacket was brand new, with tags and perfect condition bought by me at Bloomingdales just a month before I listed it for sale. When I listed it, I didn't have a chance to add measurements, and wrote that they would be added shortly. The auction was clearly stated to be final sale without returns. It was a best offer auction. The buyer never asked for measurements, made an offer, I gave her a counter offer (just to cover my tax, paypal and ebay fees - not a single $1 more) and she bought the jacket and paid for it. One day after she received the jacket she emailed me that "Chanel confirmed it was altered and not NEW" and she has put it back in the mail and wants to be refunded immediately. I was shocked! I mean, I know the jacket is new and unaltered. I bought it at a reputable store and never ever alter my items because I know how hard it would be to find a seamstress who would actually do as good a job as Chanel and not butcher the clothes. Still, I asked the buyer for her SA who told her that the jacket was altered. She gave me the name and I called the SA who told me that she is actually an Armani SA not Chanel and that she is not familiar with this particular jacket. She placed it against other Chanel jackets from the most recent collection and felt that the sleeves on the jacket I sold ran shorter (these are bracelet sleeves!!!). Also, she told me that the buyer simply does not like the jacket and I should keep her happy! Imagine that! After hearing this, I had a Chanel SA familiar with this particular jacket, confirm to me that the jacket is brand new and not altered. At this point, I mailed the jacket back to the buyer and emailed her the above info. She filed a dispute case with paypal and quickly escalated it to a claim. I sent paypal all the info and they were mulling it over for about a month. A few days ago, the buyer, without waiting for the paypal claim "verdict" filed a chargeback with the CC company and paypal withdrew the $ and left me in the negative (because I had already transferred the money from paypal into my bank account). Now, I am trying to fight the chargeback and want to know what my chances are. I have 300+ 100% feedback and buyer has 17 100% + feedback. She does buy Chanel, but never as expensive as the item she bought from me. She actually lives in my state. She never once asked me nicely for a refund or told me that she simply changed her mind. She lied from the get go stating that the jacket was altered (because it was too small for her and she is a perfect Chanel 42) and then again that Chanel confirmed it - when she never spoke to a Chanel representative. Now, she has the jacket and the $!!! What do I do? Thank you!
 

kerilynn3

Member
Jan 31, 2008
2,045
0
London
A chargeback is a chargeback, sadly.
Paypal wont do anything more.
If the value is high enough, go to the police to unsure your jacket is returned.
Might seem heavy handed, but this woman knew what she was doing. Chargebacks are nasty and are mostly done by dishonest people.
 

LT bag lady

MASTER ENABLER
Authenticator
O.G.
Apr 20, 2007
8,581
652
This is my biggest problem with Paypal, since they take so long, they leave the buyer with no option but to file a chargeback. As long as she can prove she sent it back to you she is pretty much off the hook with her cc. Keep your documents regarding the shipment back to the buyer. If all else fails take her to small claims court.
Best of luck
Cheers,
 

ladybug2468

Member
Oct 29, 2006
389
2
Wow she has the jacket and the money? She has to send the jacket back to you. Did she say she will mail it back?
 

Varied_obsessions

Because I said so
O.G.
May 7, 2006
1,415
0
OMG!! I'm so sorry! She may have buyers remorse but now she has the jacket and the money. Don't lay down and take it. File charges with your post office for fraud. Call the police and make a report. Paypal sucks!!
 

malish

Member
May 26, 2007
120
0
How can this be? Has anyone out there had a positive experience with a chargeback? Do the credit card companies ever find for the seller? This is such an expensive item? She lives in my state (we are practically neighbors - well, 30 min drive)!!!
 

kerilynn3

Member
Jan 31, 2008
2,045
0
London
^^The credit card companies are only interested in their customer. They are not there to adjudicate. That is what Paypal is for APPARENTLY!!! :nogood:
 

thuha

O.G.
Sep 11, 2006
239
0
oh my gosh, I am so sorry, but I think you should file a report with the police. And you should report this matter to eBay Trust and Safety department so that they look into this buyer (not sure if they will, but at least there is a report). Online transaction is nasty, cc company is not going to spend their time and effort into this, they will try to make their clients as happy as possible 'cause they're the one who spend, not the seller. They would reason that if you don't accept cc, you loose some of your business. I am done with cc, I don't know if you have an option on PayPal saying that you don't accept cc or so... 'cause I never heard of anyone winning the chargeback.
 

kerilynn3

Member
Jan 31, 2008
2,045
0
London
I can see why some people would be forced into doing chargebacks. I bought a very expensive item recently and the shop has not bothered to answer any of my emails and promised delivery yesterday.
I used Paypal, because that is all the took...but now I am so glad I did!!!
 

thuha

O.G.
Sep 11, 2006
239
0
oh, you should call PayPal, they will decide if they are going to side with you and dispute it to cc, they don't take all cases, but if they have enough evidence, they will... at least that what they say in their website :confused1:
 

kerilynn3

Member
Jan 31, 2008
2,045
0
London
oh my gosh, I am so sorry, but I think you should file a report with the police. And you should report this matter to eBay Trust and Safety department so that they look into this buyer (not sure if they will, but at least there is a report). Online transaction is nasty, cc company is not going to spend their time and effort into this, they will try to make their clients as happy as possible 'cause they're the one who spend, not the seller. They would reason that if you don't accept cc, you loose some of your business. I am done with cc, I don't know if you have an option on PayPal saying that you don't accept cc or so... 'cause I never heard of anyone winning the chargeback.
You can set up a new account that is Paypal funds only. I have heard of others doing this.
 

malish

Member
May 26, 2007
120
0
My God!!! This is horrible!!! There is no evidence that what this woman claims is true. She never bought anything online that was even close to the expense of this jacket! I have a very high 100% feedback and will lose both the jacket and the $??? What do I tell the police? Won't this sound crazy to them? Please advise and thank you!
 

SuperChica111

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
Mar 25, 2008
198
0
In. Why? See!
My God!!! This is horrible!!! There is no evidence that what this woman claims is true. She never bought anything online that was even close to the expense of this jacket! I have a very high 100% feedback and will lose both the jacket and the $??? What do I tell the police? Won't this sound crazy to them? Please advise and thank you!
OK- working in a Civil Courthose (litigation dept) as a legal advisor for 7+ years, there's a couple of pointers I'm going to give you. These ONLY apply generally, as each & every state has their own set of laws. Some things won't sound like common sense, but ultimately the law was created by man & man can tend to lack lots of common sense. :girlsigh:

Here's the situation at hand with purchases & "stealing" of an item from someone via the internet-

You as a seller have entered into a buy-sell contract with the buyer when the buyer won the item. The buyer paid, you sent the item. The buyer then somehow got their money back AND still kept the item. This is not considered a criminal case, but a civil one (yes, it's a bit confusing as to why the law sees it this way, but that's how it works in this particular situation). The buyer has broken the buy-sell contract by keeping the item AND taking back the $ they had initially paid. You would have to take up your situation via Small Claims Court (I'm assuming this is less than $2500...although the maximum amount to be able to sue via Small Claims changes from state to state).
Another thing to consider is where the buyer is located, this would determine where you would file the claim & what steps you need to take to try to recoup the $, not the item. Small Claims cannot make someone physically do something, therefore all judgements must have a monetary value to them.

The reason the law doesn't consider calling the police a valid form is because the 'buyer' did not physically steal the item from you (that is, breaking & entering, etc.), they 'stole' it by fraudulently entering into a contract with you.

Hopefully this answers some of your questions, if you need more info, let me know. ;) Good luck!
 

malish

Member
May 26, 2007
120
0
OK- working in a Civil Courthose (litigation dept) as a legal advisor for 7+ years, there's a couple of pointers I'm going to give you. These ONLY apply generally, as each & every state has their own set of laws. Some things won't sound like common sense, but ultimately the law was created by man & man can tend to lack lots of common sense. :girlsigh:

Here's the situation at hand with purchases & "stealing" of an item from someone via the internet-

You as a seller have entered into a buy-sell contract with the buyer when the buyer won the item. The buyer paid, you sent the item. The buyer then somehow got their money back AND still kept the item. This is not considered a criminal case, but a civil one (yes, it's a bit confusing as to why the law sees it this way, but that's how it works in this particular situation). The buyer has broken the buy-sell contract by keeping the item AND taking back the $ they had initially paid. You would have to take up your situation via Small Claims Court (I'm assuming this is less than $2500...although the maximum amount to be able to sue via Small Claims changes from state to state).
Another thing to consider is where the buyer is located, this would determine where you would file the claim & what steps you need to take to try to recoup the $, not the item. Small Claims cannot make someone physically do something, therefore all judgements must have a monetary value to them.

The reason the law doesn't consider calling the police a valid form is because the 'buyer' did not physically steal the item from you (that is, breaking & entering, etc.), they 'stole' it by fraudulently entering into a contract with you.

Hopefully this answers some of your questions, if you need more info, let me know. ;) Good luck!
Thanks so much! So, do you advise that I get a lawyer and file this in a small claims court in state of MA? Do you have any idea how much this can cost? And, do I understand correctly that you do not recommend going to the police about it? Thank you!
 

SuperChica111

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.
Mar 25, 2008
198
0
In. Why? See!
^^^​

Small Claims was not only created for cases under a certain amount of $, but representation is not allowed. That is, no lawyer is allowed to represent a client; the normal-day citizen goes in to state their claim & present the facts. In your case in particular, the amount of $ wouldn't be worth it to a lawyer (as lawyer's have a certain fee they charge & require a retainer, etc.). There would be more court costs involved with this & at the end of the day you'd probably not only be out of the $ you're suing for, but probably would end up paying more for a lawyer.

The police will not be able to file a report for you because they would consider this a civil case.

Now, depending on the amount of $$$ involved here AND because internet fraud is becoming a more prevalent form of "thievery" for scam artists, you might want to contact your local DA to see if they have any resources for these kind of case scenarios (you're one of the luckier people on here- the person actually resides within the same state, city, county, township, etc., making this process slightly easier than for others).

Small claims fees vary from city to city- this can range anywhere from $20/claim to maybe a certain % of the amount you're suing for.

This is why, unfortunately, we need to become more selective when it comes to selling high-end priced items. We need to involve ourselves with research on what our rights are civilly. Can a small claims be made in my state, if the other party lives in another state? What's the $$$-cap for small claims in my area? Will this transaction be covered by paypal?

It's sad that nowadays we need to think super-hard & take under consideration ALL factors when it comes to selling an item via Ebay, using PayPal, because it seems to be that these companies were created to protect the thief. :hysteric: