Bad Experience with Paypal/eBay seller

[Rachel88]

Hi everyone, I am new here and I am glad to be able to start my own thread =). I have posted in another thread, but I hope it is okay for me to open this one. This is the first time I have dealt with something like this.


I have ordered an item on eBay which turned out to be a clear fake, and have tried resolving this with the seller. The seller is a Chinese person who clearly uses some translation program (noticed it after payment -.-) and resides in Manchester U.K.

In the listing he (I think) described the item as authentic and the item location as Manchester, U.K. After some delay (I live in the Netherlands so it usually takes on average 3-5 days for me to receive the item, a week tops) I had approached him and he had told me that the item will be shipped from China.

Already was I very upset and worried, I thought it would probably be a fake (the price was 90 GBP, 109 euros for me).

The seller told me he would offer a refund but only if I would ship the item back to an adress in China (unverified by Paypal) and I didn't want to do that first of all because it is unverified and secondly because importing/exporting counterfeit items is illegal in the Netherlands and though some to pass by (of course), there is also a chance it won't and I do not want to end up having to pay a fine and getting into trouble with the authorities.


So I filed a dispute with Paypal, the seller told me that he had never seen the item (it was his supplier that would ship it from China) and how he could know it is fake. I was completely at lost for words, don't sell something that you have never seen! So I escalated to a claim after he kept insisting for me to ship it back to China.

So I won the case, but I clicked on imitation so eBay asked for me to ship it to their verified address of the seller in UK, sadly I was an idiot and told eBay that it was an imitation item (as I have stated and clicked) and that I didn't want to risk getting into trouble.

So they gave me ten days to find the appropriate documents and so I contacted authenticate4u, after having attached the files I received an e-mail shortly after from Paypal that the documents I have attached (the authentication from authenticate4u) were not up to par with what they would consider an expert/neutral third party etc.

So Authenticate4u even wrote another letter addressing Paypal about their decision, I have e-mailed them this, but it seemed that they didn't even take the time to look at it.

With a deadline on my hands I decided to send them an e-mail in which they should have to clearify for me on which grounds they have dismissed Authenticate4u, in which they have sent me this e-mail:


Beste xxxxxxxxxxxx,

Bedankt dat u contact heeft opgenomen met PayPal.

Dit is geescaleerd door mijn collega en we hebben het volgende antwoord gekregen:

Case has been reviewed and we do not accept online documents from "Authenticate4U.com", we only accept documents from mypoupette.com and Carol Diva; therefore, I've emailed buyer confirming that they will have to resubmit documents to be able to continue with investigation.

We hebben het liefst een verklaring van bijvoorbeeld een werknemer van een schoenenwinkel, die daadwerkelijk de Uggs heeft gezien.

Met vriendelijke groet,
Martijn
PayPal

Copyright © 1999-2011 PayPal. Alle rechten voorbehouden. PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. & Cie, S.C.A. (Société en Commandite par Actions).
Gevestigd te Luxemburg, 22-24 Boulevard Royal, 5ème étage, L-2449
RCS Luxembourg B 118 349.


I have e-mailed them that I will be filing a chargeback with my cc company ( I don't know yet what my cc company's policies are, I'm awaiting the documents) so I hope that goes well. I have more things to tell about the experience, but this is too long, so if anyone is interested you could look at http://forum.purseblog.com/ebay-forum/ebay-chat-thead-whoo-hoo-513016-221.html

and http://forum.purseblog.com/ebay-forum/ebay-chat-thead-whoo-hoo-513016-222.html


I find it very funny how they ask for me to get an authentication from an official dealer, they wouldn't do that for me and it is very weird how they do not know that. I don't know what to do xD This has definitely been an expensive lesson =) (albeit not as expensive as that of some others, but still)






Also the representative sent me this e-mail today:

Dear xxxxxxx,



Thank you for contacting PayPal regarding your case PP-xxxxxxx.

I have read your email and understand your frustration.

However we need to receive valid documentation in order to close the case in your favour.

If you decide to do a chargeback via your credit card company, then the case PPxxxxx will be closed and you will loose your buyer protection.

Therefore we kindly ask you to provide the requested documentation within the timeframe.

Perhaps you can go to a store that is licensed to sell Ugg Australia and get documents from them.



If we do not received the requested documentation within the provided timeframe, then the case will be closed in the seller's favour.

Our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.

Please let us know if you require any further assistance.



Yours sincerely,

xxxxxxxxx

PayPal

 

[limom]

Call your visa asap to figure out your options. Make sure that you are clear that they will allow you a charge back.
Follow their directions.
In the meantime, do not inform paypal regarding your intentions. It won't help you.
Take it from there.

 

[Rachel88]

Call your visa asap to figure out your options. Make sure that you are clear that they will allow you a charge back.
Follow their directions.
In the meantime, do not inform paypal regarding your intentions. It won't help you.
Take it from there.

Thank you so much for your reply! But it seems as if I will already lose the case, since they said if I can't provide someone else than Authenticate4u that I will lose the case and today is the last day, the case is being reviewed so to speak.

I have also told Paypal that it seems that I will have to file a chargeback with my cc company (though only after they were being unreasonable).

I called my cc company and they told me they will send the papers and I will have to fill it out, I mentioned the case and the person didn't say that I wouldn't be able to get a chargeback for the counterfeit item, so I am guessing if it doesn't fall in their policies he would've mentioned it then and there, I'll call tomorrow again to be sure.

 

[*want it all*]

Also the representative sent me this e-mail today:

Dear xxxxxxx,



Thank you for contacting PayPal regarding your case PP-xxxxxxx.

I have read your email and understand your frustration.

However we need to receive valid documentation in order to close the case in your favour.

If you decide to do a chargeback via your credit card company, then the case PPxxxxx will be closed and you will loose your buyer protection.

Therefore we kindly ask you to provide the requested documentation within the timeframe.

Perhaps you can go to a store that is licensed to sell Ugg Australia and get documents from them.



If we do not received the requested documentation within the provided timeframe, then the case will be closed in the seller's favour.

Our sincere apologies for any inconvenience.

Please let us know if you require any further assistance.



Yours sincerely,

xxxxxxxxx

PayPal

So they're not honoring what authenticate4u has stated and will only allow caroldiva and mypoupette to do the authenticating? Did PP originally state that authenticate4u was sufficient, and now PP is backpedaling?

I'm sorry, but I also must comment on the bolded above. You're not going to "loose" your buyer protection. You'll lose it. Spelling/grammar nut here.

Bah, who cares about that level of protection...it sure hasn't paid off for you. It's great you paid via your cc. I'm betting your cc (after reviewing your evidence) will just want you to mail the fake Uggs back to the seller w/proof of delivery, and then you'll get your $ back.

 

[Rachel88]

So they're not honoring what authenticate4u has stated and will only allow caroldiva and mypoupette to do the authenticating? Did PP originally state that authenticate4u was sufficient, and now PP is backpedaling?

I'm sorry, but I also must comment on the bolded above. You're not going to "loose" your buyer protection. You'll lose it. Spelling/grammar nut here.

Bah, who cares about that level of protection...it sure hasn't paid off for you. It's great you paid via your cc. I'm betting your cc (after reviewing your evidence) will just want you to mail the fake Uggs back to the seller w/proof of delivery, and then you'll get your $ back.

Hahaha yes, I noticed the typo too. You're right, what buyer protection? They blatantly stated that they will NOT accept any documentations from Authenticate4u I was also very disappointed and confused by this.

But wouldn't I be risking and breaking laws by sending the boots? I am a law student and have also further informed about this and shipping the counterfeit boots is a crime here for which you can get a lot of trouble (and their favorite thing to do here is to charge you with a fine), and although not every counterfeit item gets inspected and such, it is a risk you will be taking.

I hope I won't have to send it to an 'unverified' address in China and that I'll just have to send it to the address of the seller in the UK mmhh =( I wish this could be over with.

 

[limom]

Thank you so much for your reply! But it seems as if I will already lose the case, since they said if I can't provide someone else than Authenticate4u that I will lose the case and today is the last day, the case is being reviewed so to speak.

I have also told Paypal that it seems that I will have to file a chargeback with my cc company (though only after they were being unreasonable).

I called my cc company and they told me they will send the papers and I will have to fill it out, I mentioned the case and the person didn't say that I wouldn't be able to get a chargeback for the counterfeit item, so I am guessing if it doesn't fall in their policies he would've mentioned it then and there, I'll call tomorrow again to be sure.

Can you look at their policy on line? If it is the same as here in the US. I had to mail back the item to the seller.
The seller involved in your situation sounds like a drop-shipper. Of course, he knows he sells fakes.
He does not need to see the boots!
Do not give up.

 

[pluckygirl]

I would contact Carol Diva and get the documentation from her and resubmit. Don't give up yet. I understand how frustrated you must feel but wrong is still wrong. Hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[Rachel88]

I would contact Carol Diva and get the documentation from her and resubmit. Don't give up yet. I understand how frustrated you must feel but wrong is still wrong. Hope this helps. Good luck.

Thanks so much! But it's too late now my ten days are up. =( Also one representative said they accept CarolDiva when the other said that want the item to be reviewed in person by an official UGG dealer (or shoestore). So that is also annoying since it seems that even if I would have asked CarolDiva for help on time that they might have rejected that authentication as well.


I cannot believe that they are asking an authentication from an official dealer, they should know that they do not do authentications, at least not in the form of an official letter.

 

[Rachel88]

Can you look at their policy on line? If it is the same as here in the US. I had to mail back the item to the seller.
The seller involved in your situation sounds like a drop-shipper. Of course, he knows he sells fakes.
He does not need to see the boots!
Do not give up.

Thank you so much, my credit card is a mastercard, if so then I guess it will all be well, since the person I talked to on the phone wouldn't send me the form if my situation didn't fall under their policies. I'll make sure of course, but I'll be receiving the documents soon.


Do I need to inform the seller of the chargeback?

 

[*want it all*]

Hahaha yes, I noticed the typo too. You're right, what buyer protection? They blatantly stated that they will NOT accept any documentations from Authenticate4u I was also very disappointed and confused by this.

But wouldn't I be risking and breaking laws by sending the boots? I am a law student and have also further informed about this and shipping the counterfeit boots is a crime here for which you can get a lot of trouble (and their favorite thing to do here is to charge you with a fine), and although not every counterfeit item gets inspected and such, it is a risk you will be taking.

I hope I won't have to send it to an 'unverified' address in China and that I'll just have to send it to the address of the seller in the UK mmhh =( I wish this could be over with.

*hi five* to that.

Well, if returning the boots is a condition stipulated by your cc company, then you should tell that agent upfront that you are not comfortable in doing this and why. I agree that if a pair is blatantly fake then what is the point of shipping it back to the seller...he/she is just going to resell it.

I know in PP transactions, they have waffled back and forth in terms of what they request of the buyer. Sometimes they will just ask you to destroy the product, and other times, they will ask you to mail the item back to the seller.

For chargeback situations, they usually want to see the transaction 'whole' again, if you know what I mean...so, you ship the merch back to the seller w/proof of delivery, and you get your money back. Of course, it's likely expected that cc agencies will have diff protocols set up for counterfeit merch though. In any case, I think you'll get your $ back regardless. Keep your chin up!

 

[whateve]

No one has mentioned this yet, but did the listing say that the item was located in the UK? If so, then the seller violated Ebay rules by lying about the location of the item. You don't need to ship it back to China because it was supposed to come from the UK. That is probably the original reason you won the case.

You should have told Ebay that you destroyed the item after you learned it was fake, because you knew that it was illegal. I have heard of people getting away with this.
You can say that you didn't want to break the law by mailing counterfeits. If it is counterfeit, why should the seller get it back - so he can sell it again? Include a copy of the law with your complaint.
I have heard that credit card companies are usually pretty good about getting your money back. Good luck.

By the way, you would have been within your rights to cancel the transaction once he told you the item was in China. This is a common technique that unscrupulous sellers use. They tell you that they have run out of stock, but that they can have it shipped directly from their supplier in China.

 

[Rachel88]

*hi five* to that.

Well, if returning the boots is a condition stipulated by your cc company, then you should tell that agent upfront that you are not comfortable in doing this and why. I agree that if a pair is blatantly fake then what is the point of shipping it back to the seller...he/she is just going to resell it.

I know in PP transactions, they have waffled back and forth in terms of what they request of the buyer. Sometimes they will just ask you to destroy the product, and other times, they will ask you to mail the item back to the seller.

For chargeback situations, they usually want to see the transaction 'whole' again, if you know what I mean...so, you ship the merch back to the seller w/proof of delivery, and you get your money back. Of course, it's likely expected that cc agencies will have diff protocols set up for counterfeit merch though. In any case, I think you'll get your $ back regardless. Keep your chin up!

Thank you so much! All of you are very nice and this means a lot, it has been a very stressful experience so far. I am sorry if I am asking too much, but do you know which address the cc companies ask you to ship the item to? The one the seller requests or the actual address of the seller?

Once again thank you all so much

 

[Rachel88]

No one has mentioned this yet, but did the listing say that the item was located in the UK? If so, then the seller violated Ebay rules by lying about the location of the item. You don't need to ship it back to China because it was supposed to come from the UK. That is probably the original reason you won the case.

You should have told Ebay that you destroyed the item after you learned it was fake, because you knew that it was illegal. I have heard of people getting away with this.
You can say that you didn't want to break the law by mailing counterfeits. If it is counterfeit, why should the seller get it back - so he can sell it again? Include a copy of the law with your complaint.
I have heard that credit card companies are usually pretty good about getting your money back. Good luck.

I'm new with this so I didn't know that was possible, yes the seller did set the item location as Manchester, U.K. and it came from China!

I haven't worn the boots and still have them the packaging and everything.

What do I do now? The case is up right now being reviewed, should I call them tomorrow morning and tell them about the item location being wrong and so on? Maybe I should have filed with eBay instead. =( The representatives really made it clear that if I won't include an authentication from someone other than authenticate4 that I will not win the case. They kept 'demanding' for me to prove the item was fake so even if I destroyed it, what would happen then?

 

[*want it all*]

It's nice to have you here, Rachel88. I'm just glad we can help alleviate a bit of your stress...all of your stress will be gone once we put this issue behind you!

When I had to file a chargeback w/my cc, I shipped it to the address on file (which was one in the same as what the person specified). In your case, it's different since the shoes are coming from a whole other country.

I think anyone with half a brain would know that this is a clear case of duplicity (how this escapes PP is beyond me ).

btw, this is OT, but I should also point out a good thing that happened to me under Mastercard...my hubby bought an external hard drive and proceeded to back up the main computer's hard drive...something went wrong, and he wasn't able to retrieve the files off the external...but all our info (including passwords and highly sensitive info) was on there. The company whereby we bought the item wouldn't take it back since the 30 day return policy had elapsed. The vendor (Seagate) said they'd fix the problem if we sent it in. Okay, normally that wouldn't be a problem, but what if somehow the item got lost in the mail and ID thieves/hackers were able to extract the info from there? Um, I didn't feel safe doing that.

Long story short, Mastercard refunded me $50 for the hard drive. It cost $85 for the hard drive, but Mastercard didn't make me return the product to the vendor, and having $50 back was better than nothing at all or having to ship highly sensitive stuff through the mail!

So, hopefully in your situation Mastercard will see that the Uggs are obviously fake and that this seller shipping his stuff from China is a big, honkin' red flag...and Mastercard will reimburse you in full w/o having to ship the boots back at all.

 

[Rachel88]

It's nice to have you here, Rachel88. I'm just glad we can help alleviate a bit of your stress...all of your stress will be gone once we put this issue behind you!

When I had to file a chargeback w/my cc, I shipped it to the address on file (which was one in the same as what the person specified). In your case, it's different since the shoes are coming from a whole other country.

I think anyone with half a brain would know that this is a clear case of duplicity (how this escapes PP is beyond me ).

btw, this is OT, but I should also point out a good thing that happened to me under Mastercard...my hubby bought an external hard drive and proceeded to back up the main computer's hard drive...something went wrong, and he wasn't able to retrieve the files off the external...but all our info (including passwords and highly sensitive info) was on there. The company whereby we bought the item wouldn't take it back since the 30 day return policy had elapsed. The vendor (Seagate) said they'd fix the problem if we sent it in. Okay, normally that wouldn't be a problem, but what if somehow the item got lost in the mail and ID thieves/hackers were able to extract the info from there? Um, I didn't feel safe doing that.

Long story short, Mastercard refunded me $50 for the hard drive. It cost $85 for the hard drive, but Mastercard didn't make me return the product to the vendor, and having $50 back was better than nothing at all or having to ship highly sensitive stuff through the mail!

So, hopefully in your situation Mastercard will see that the Uggs are obviously fake and that this seller shipping his stuff from China is a big, honkin' red flag...and Mastercard will reimburse you in full w/o having to ship the boots back at all.

Thank you so much you guys are really sweet, which is very different from the situation I am in, it is very refreshing!

I hope so, but just like PP I thought it would be a clear case, but it took a completely different route from what I have anticipated. I have also stated to Paypal that it has been shipped from China when the item location was described as Manchester, U.K. and that alone is sufficient proof that it is fake (in addition to the authentication letter I provided).

Thank you for sharing you experience with me, I hope something similar with happen since I am scared of sending anything, and to send it to China, to someone who is NOT the seller, someone whom I have nothing to do with!

So I hope the seller will not provide any other address other than that of his own, but I doubt that will be the case, since he was adamant of me shipping it to China. I am also scared that if I were to ship it to China (or to the seller in UK) that they will not accept the item and I know that when shipping items, the tracking 'stops' when it reaches the country of destination and then it 'transforms' to the tracking of the local service, so how would I be able to prove that the item was delivered? These are all things going through my head, also I'm sure shipping to China is VERY expensive from here -.- sigh. And again I have no agreement with whomever his supplier is, so I will refuse to ship anything to China (not that I even feel comfortable shipping the item at all). I do wonder what will happen if I were to ship it (if that is required) and customs will deem the item as counterfeit, will I be hold accountable?!

Please let me know if I am being unreasonable.