A member here has opened a false claim against me. Help!

[Fancy_Pants]

I sold a pair of CL's in an off-ebay transaction. They had some definite flaws and I clearly pointed them out and I had 25 different photos of the shoes on the listing so the buyer could clearly see what they were getting. I have been selling on ebay for about 12 years now and am always extremely detailed with my listings.

An ebay member who said she was a TPF member messaged me and offered me a lower price because they did have flaws and as she put it, "needed some TLC at the shoe cobbler". I explained that my pricing on them was low already for this particular pair, because of the mentioned flaws but because she was a member here I felt safe with her and told her that I could give her a slightly lower price if she bought direct. She agreed and I shipped her item out which was delivered awhile ago.

She just opened a claim tonight for item not as described and is trying to make it sound like these shoes are in worse condition than I described which is not true at all. The item was final sale and I don't want to take a return on them at all. (I was selling them on consignment for another member here and I am sure she wants her sale).

I fear that Paypal will just allow her to return them anyway. It's clear she knows how to use the ebay/paypal system to force a claim. I am beyond frustrated that another member here would do this to me.

 

[BeenBurned]

Without trying to add salt to the wounds, I'll repeat what's been said many times in the past and will probably be repeated many times in the future.

1. Being a member of TPF doesn't equate to honesty.

For one thing, anyone can join and there's no vetting of members to make sure they're who they say they are or that they're honest.

Another thing is that someone can say they're a member here and they aren't. Again, there's no proof unless the person tells you her ID here.

2. Taking a transaction off ebay in order to save on fees is unethical and more often than not, leads to problems that are more easily resolved when it's a legitimate transaction.

Both buyers and sellers have an extra layer of protection when going through the venue in which the item was listed.

As a seller, you would have had seller protection had you sold the item on ebay. You can win a dispute for SNAD when you've accurately described and photographed your USED item.

As the buyer, she would have extra protection too.

If you are going to use ebay to gain exposure and find buyers, you need to be willing to pay the fees that go along with that benefit.

While I feel bad that you had a dispute opened against you, you don't have ebay protection to stand behind you and unless you take the return for a refund, you're apt to find that PP will just issue the refund and let her keep the shoes. (Their thought process is that sellers to insist that they don't want to take the return don't want the item back.)

Next time, keep the whole transaction honest and both buyer and seller will be happier and will have better and more ways to resolve issues.

To go back to the being a "TPF member," I can't even count the number of listings for fakes where sellers claim to be "proud TPF members." And if you read this forum, you'll find lots of threads where members were outed as scammers.

 

[*schmoo*]

Sorry this happened to you. I've also seen people mentioning being a TPF member on their listing for fakes. I've also heard lots of horror stories of people being scammed in all sorts of ways from other TPF members. Would PayPal refund your fees if it was returned?

 

[uadjit]

We don't know if the buyer is actually a member here or not. It's really not relevant at this point, either except that if she is she'll probably read your posts.

Without seeing your listing I really can't get a read on how well the shoes' flaws were conveyed. OTOH, if there is no listing associated with the purchase (because you were circumventing eBay fees) then I'm not sure what your buyer has to refer to when opening a SNAD. I'd think you'd have a fairly decent chance of fighting the claim. You also have a bit more leverage since your eBay account is not in danger of being negged (be sure to block the buyer's eBay ID, btw).

 

[northerndancer]

1. Being a member of TPF doesn't equate to honesty.

For one thing, anyone can join and there's no vetting of members to make sure they're who they say they are or that they're honest.

ITA. That she is a TPF member is irrelevant.

Would PayPal refund your fees if it was returned?

Yes, if the payment is refunded, the fees (minus a small surcharge) the seller recovers the fees.

Without seeing your listing I really can't get a read on how well the shoes' flaws were conveyed. OTOH, if there is no listing associated with the purchase (because you were circumventing eBay fees) then I'm not sure what your buyer has to refer to when opening a SNAD.

This raises an interesting point. I know Paypal covers SNADs but what "description" is "not as described".

 

[Love Of My Life]

Unfortuntely by the buyer mentioning that she was a member here she gained your
confidence. Very typical of a scammer.

I'd try & fight this..Good luck & sure hope that you have learned a lesson

 

[Fancy_Pants]

Without trying to add salt to the wounds, I'll repeat what's been said many times in the past and will probably be repeated many times in the future.

1. Being a member of TPF doesn't equate to honesty.

For one thing, anyone can join and there's no vetting of members to make sure they're who they say they are or that they're honest.

Another thing is that someone can say they're a member here and they aren't. Again, there's no proof unless the person tells you her ID here.

2. Taking a transaction off ebay in order to save on fees is unethical and more often than not, leads to problems that are more easily resolved when it's a legitimate transaction.

Both buyers and sellers have an extra layer of protection when going through the venue in which the item was listed.

As a seller, you would have had seller protection had you sold the item on ebay. You can win a dispute for SNAD when you've accurately described and photographed your USED item.

As the buyer, she would have extra protection too.

If you are going to use ebay to gain exposure and find buyers, you need to be willing to pay the fees that go along with that benefit.

While I feel bad that you had a dispute opened against you, you don't have ebay protection to stand behind you and unless you take the return for a refund, you're apt to find that PP will just issue the refund and let her keep the shoes. (Their thought process is that sellers to insist that they don't want to take the return don't want the item back.)

Next time, keep the whole transaction honest and both buyer and seller will be happier and will have better and more ways to resolve issues.

To go back to the being a "TPF member," I can't even count the number of listings for fakes where sellers claim to be "proud TPF members." And if you read this forum, you'll find lots of threads where members were outed as scammers.

Thank you for your reply and suggestions. The member is a pretty active member, especially in the CL forum. But I definitely know that just because someone says they are a member doesn't mean that they are, or that they are an honest person.

As far as the ebay fees. It didn't benefit me in the slightest. I was trying to do a nice thing for her as a TPF member and sold direct so that she could save the amount of the fees. I will stop being so nice in the future.

Also, I sell through more avenues than eBay. I have followers from my facebook business page and other online sites that I direct to my eBay listings that would never have found my item if it weren't for my fb page or those other sites. So I don't gain all my sales from my eBay exposure alone. I have had local friends and friends of friends who know me personally and go view my items from my fb business page and then ask a question on my eBay listing yet we complete the sale in person. I don't view that as unethical in the slightest. As far as keeping it an 'honest or legitimate sell' like was mentioned here, just because it isn't done on ebay doesn't make it dishonest in the slightest. That's like saying every other online website isn't legit because their sales aren't done through ebay. I just don't think it is as black and white as stating that eBay deserves their cut on all items that were ever listed on ebay. My eBay fees amount to in the thousands each month....they definitely get their cut from me. hehe

eBay and Paypal are owned by the same company as we all know so the seller protection is the same no matter if it is completed on ebay or directly through an invoice. If I do lose this claim, I am sure it would have been just the same if the sale had bought on ebay and opened a claim there.

I am hoping that Paypal will be fair and not allow this to happen. I know that I listed my item accurately and that I am an honest person. But, as we know, they generally side with the buyer so that buyers are comfortable buying again and generating their revenue. And because people like this member know that, they used that to their advantage to really use the system. Very sad.

I would post the listing so you could see how detailed I was in the description and all 25 photos, but I know that we can't post links to our sales and I am not sure if that is any different in the ebay forum here?

We don't know if the buyer is actually a member here or not. It's really not relevant at this point, either except that if she is she'll probably read your posts.

Without seeing your listing I really can't get a read on how well the shoes' flaws were conveyed. OTOH, if there is no listing associated with the purchase (because you were circumventing eBay fees) then I'm not sure what your buyer has to refer to when opening a SNAD. I'd think you'd have a fairly decent chance of fighting the claim. You also have a bit more leverage since your eBay account is not in danger of being negged (be sure to block the buyer's eBay ID, btw).

She was blocked right away. Thanks.

 

[Sssy]

If she( buyer) is a member of TPF she should have something to say soon... If she is honest person maybe she will tell us her side of story. If she isn't ... let's hope OP won't be out of money and the shoes...

 

[Wakerider]

Also, I sell through more avenues than eBay. I have followers from my facebook business page and other online sites that I direct to my eBay listings that would never have found my item if it weren't for my fb page or those other sites. So I don't gain all my sales from my eBay exposure alone. I have had local friends and friends of friends who know me personally and go view my items from my fb business page and then ask a question on my eBay listing yet we complete the sale in person. I don't view that as unethical in the slightest. As far as keeping it an 'honest or legitimate sell' like was mentioned here, just because it isn't done on ebay doesn't make it dishonest in the slightest. That's like saying every other online website isn't legit because their sales aren't done through ebay. I just don't think it is as black and white as stating that eBay deserves their cut on all items that were ever listed on ebay. My eBay fees amount to in the thousands each month....they definitely get their cut from me. hehe

.

Great point. I, too, sell a decent amount with FB directed traffic to ebay. It's unfair to say the only way this buyer saw her items were through ebay alone. (maybe ebay should start paying sellers for directing traffic to ebay? haha.)

 

[northerndancer]

Thank you for your reply and suggestions. The member's name...

If it is not too late, you should edit your post to delete the TPF ID. Ebay disputes between TPF members should be settled privately.

 

[Fancy_Pants]

If it is not too late, you should edit your post to delete the TPF ID. Ebay disputes between TPF members should be settled privately.

Thanks so much. I did not know that. I have edited it out.

 

[lilcram]

If it is not too late, you should edit your post to delete the TPF ID. Ebay disputes between TPF members should be settled privately.

Isn't that a double standard when one side says being a TPF member doesn't mean anything but just because you are a member, there should be protection and disclosure?

 

[northerndancer]

Isn't that a double standard when one side says being a TPF member doesn't mean anything but just because you are a member, there should be protection and disclosure?

Protection from what? Having your dispute publicly aired? It is not my rule - I just know any threads I have seen that involve disputes between two TPF members get closed.

 

[Black Elite]

Great point. I, too, sell a decent amount with FB directed traffic to ebay. It's unfair to say the only way this buyer saw her items were through ebay alone. (maybe ebay should start paying sellers for directing traffic to ebay? haha.)

I disagree, to an extent.

I understand that many sellers list items simultaneously on different sites, but if this particular sale was the result of eBay exposure, then the seller should have gone through the formal eBay process.

From reading the OP's posts, I get the impression that this sale would not have happened had it not been for eBay.

 

[Wakerider]

Isn't that a double standard when one side says being a TPF member doesn't mean anything but just because you are a member, there should be protection and disclosure?

^true. I'd want to know if there was something shady going on. I know that no one wants their name posted when something like this going on, but OP is not downright slandering her, she is just asking an opinion.