On social stereotype: How to deal with people who believe that dressing well "is very superficial"?

[EmilyM111]

Interesting topic. I have a hypothesis (those who disagree please remember it’s my opinion only): society deals badly with women putting themselves first, spending (very often their own money) on items not categorised as utility (car, housing, broadly kids’ needs or holiday). Think bizarrely it’s accepted to spend small amounts on looks (that often add up to 000s over time) but when a woman enters a territory of spoiling herself for big money (kind of luxury car/watches/gadgets space for men), it’s commented. That’s what happened to me in the UK (got to the point when my husband was called a sugar daddy, despite me earning really good money,being promoted, having 3 masters, paying always myself for fashion).
As Eastern European (living in the UK) can’t though think about the other side: in my country of origin people (erm women) comment and judge you the opposite way - if you don’t do Botox and other procedures, don’t do nails, facials, don’t dress up you’re seen as neglected/not looked after. That’s painful and harsh on many levels as well.

 

[mellecyn]

I´m on the side of "dressing well is a form of respect/politeness", and also think that people expressing these judgments, not able to accept the diverse opinions and behaviors of others as valid as their own, are....insecure and trying to make themselves feel better or reassured THEY are in the right. Do not let this affect you.
I miss not being surrounded by more inspirational people when it comes to fashion! People here are so drab (and can´t put an outfit together) it depresses me. BUT I like to see people who are sophisticated and elegant and cool... but while still being nice and modest.

 

[chicinthecity777]

Well, for me, I am not going to listen to slobs! They do them, I do me!

 

[Purses & Perfumes]

Once or twice, I have had questions about my collections, usually from people wanting to know why I have so many items within a certain category, be it winter coats, bags or perfume. I usually reply "Because it gives me a lot of pleasure and I enjoy having the variety."

And I have also come across maybe a handful of people here and there who have made snarky comments about being well-dressed and whenever I pick up these negative vibes, I usually just avoid or minimize my time with them. Funnily enough, these comments have always come up when I was casually dressed (jeans, a T-shirt and maybe a blazer, and one time a summer dress).

 

[Pollie-Jean]

Absolutely pjhm!
I remember those people asking me what. I was doing in a big city I was visiting.
I answered I spent my time walking around shopping malls.( which was true).
They were speechless. !
I added " Yes, I am a superficial lady"
No one was able to respond...

This always helps and I do the same way because I'm not interested in discussing or justifying my lifestyle
In addition, I avoid contact with such people. We do not have much to talk about anyway

 

[gracekelly]

I dress for myself and don't give a rat's banana what another person thinks. i accept that the way of the world has been to dress down and look like bathing is very optional. I don't feel comfortable looking that way myself and if someone thinks that is superficial and shallow then too bad. I have lived long enough to know that appearance is just that.... appearance. Get to know the person.

 

[antschulina]

Interesting topic. I have a hypothesis (those who disagree please remember it’s my opinion only): society deals badly with women putting themselves first, spending (very often their own money) on items not categorised as utility (car, housing, broadly kids’ needs or holiday). Think bizarrely it’s accepted to spend small amounts on looks (that often add up to 000s over time) but when a woman enters a territory of spoiling herself for big money (kind of luxury car/watches/gadgets space for men), it’s commented. That’s what happened to me in the UK (got to the point when my husband was called a sugar daddy, despite me earning really good money,being promoted, having 3 masters, paying always myself for fashion).
As Eastern European (living in the UK) can’t though think about the other side: in my country of origin people (erm women) comment and judge you the opposite way - if you don’t do Botox and other procedures, don’t do nails, facials, don’t dress up you’re seen as neglected/not looked after. That’s painful and harsh on many levels as well.

I agree with you! Yes Eastern Europeans, even those who live in Europe, would look down at you if you do not spend on yourself! And it can be very disagreable like you said!

 

[EmilyM111]

I agree with you! Yes Eastern Europeans, even those who live in Europe, would look down at you if you do not spend on yourself! And it can be very disagreable like you said!

Guess it comes from patriarchal (?) culture there. The opportunities to do well as a woman there (unless you’re a daughter of wealthy parents or beautiful and very intelligent woman) are very limited, salaries are very low etc so the only assets women have are looks. I see completely opposite in the UK and appreciate it - in my company the CEO and CMO don’t give a f*** about looks and they’re millionaires but of own making. The receptionist (Polish like me) spends more on her looks than them.
I find it stressful as I’ve entered there certain circles (due to my limited success, mostly my English husband) where I am frowned upon for not doing certain things, not being slim enough, looking young enough, not wearing brands from head to toes. Though as others say, you choose your people and so will I.
Either way is just not nice.

 

[ladysarah]

I´m on the side of "dressing well is a form of respect/politeness",
I miss not being surrounded by more inspirational people when it comes to fashion! People here are so drab (and can´t put an outfit together) it depresses me. BUT I like to see people who are sophisticated and elegant and cool... but while still being nice and modest.

this is such a good one! I totally agree. Good grooming and good dress sense is a sign of civilisation- slovenly dressers are not deep thinkers they just need haven’t got it together.

 

[papertiger]

Other than for work, where it isn’t a choice, I refuse to spend time with people who are negative about anything positive.

I don’t like to hunt, mountain climb, square dance, have pets, knit... BUT, I am truly happy to engage with people on any of those topics or anything else they like that I don’t. Or (gasp) I can simply be quiet and polite with a Mona Lisa smile plastered on my face. So, I expect the same pleasantry and respect in return.

I don’t see any reason someone would be negative about your grooming or purchases unless they are jealous, bitter in general or raised by obnoxious wolves.

I’m perfectly ok with genuine, pleasant discussion and inquiry. Just like I would hope an avid golfer / Buddhist / woodworker would be patient with my really basic comments or questions since they have a passion or life approach I don’t share. But, the very few times anyone has rudely or presumptively questioned / commented on my approach or things I meet them head on with some form of “I see you are happy with less but, I don’t have the time or interest to train you on why you should want better.” That always ends the dumb bunny chatter.

I love that you say "better" and not 'more'

 

[papertiger]

Guess it comes from patriarchal (?) culture there. The opportunities to do well as a woman there (unless you’re a daughter of wealthy parents or beautiful and very intelligent woman) are very limited, salaries are very low etc so the only assets women have are looks. I see completely opposite in the UK and appreciate it - in my company the CEO and CMO don’t give a f*** about looks and they’re millionaires but of own making. The receptionist (Polish like me) spends more on her looks than them.
I find it stressful as I’ve entered there certain circles (due to my limited success, mostly my English husband) where I am frowned upon for not doing certain things, not being slim enough, looking young enough, not wearing brands from head to toes. Though as others say, you choose your people and so will I.
Either way is just not nice.

Basically as a woman it's hard to a) not be scrutinised and b) not to be criticised.

It doesn't matter wether a woman wears the latest designer fashions, shop from goodwill/charity shops, go naked or wear a hijab, she will be open to criticism. Since you'll never be right, you may as well please yourself.

 

[EmilyM111]

Basically as a woman it's hard to a) not be scrutinised and b) not to be criticised.

It doesn't matter wether a woman wears the latest designer fashions, shop from goodwill/charity shops, go naked or wear a hijab, she will be open to criticism. Since you'll never be right, you may as well please yourself.

And that's what I've chosen to do But i fight hard in my circles for women to have right to do/buy whatever it pleases them and man...it's hard work.

 

[papertiger]

Dear TPFs! We are members and supportive of each other. The pool of reasons to be here reflects many interests, be it in luxury (jewelry, handbags), the consumption of specific goods or services, or to be on a platform where we can chit chat about ootd or our looks.
In my life, I have lived in different contexts, including Eastern Europe, Westen Europe and North America. I have also worked in various fields, including corporations and academic positions. I have witnessed various attitudes towards the importance of dressing well in each environment and depending on your own career goals. Those attitudes are also different when it comes to spending money on one's appearance (spa, facial) and enjoying fashion or luxury. I feel that in some social situations where we confront with other people, we sometimes come too close to negative opinions about our love for luxury, fashion and makeup passions. And those people manage to really make us feel bad about what we buy. I hope that this thread will be beneficial for all of us, and help us deal with comments and confrontational situations. Here is my story:
I went to North America for a job, and made some friends. My job is not in the fashion industry. Many of my friends and colleagues enjoy the outdoors, camping and the nature, regardless of the socio-economic status. Recently I got to hear comments such as "in Europe the appearance is so important for nothing" or "taking care of your looks is actually so superficial, there is so much more to life than how you look like" or "this is only a handbag, why did you pay XX$ for it when you can buy much cheaper?". And it goes on and on about shaving legs, getting a facial, getting the nails done, or buying something new, even if it is "only" zara and didn't cost much. The question is not even about whether one has to agree or not with those comments.... I know that we live in a consumer society, and that we are being influenced by luxury marketing who sell it all. But then, buying luxury and looking good are my biggest everyday rewards, and things that cheer me up on a rainy day. I never tell them "why you spend money on outdoors?" although to me it would be a waste of money and time. I never tell them that those comments are misplaced. So are questions about how much luxury handbags cost. I sometimes wonder how to lead those conversations next time and avoid those comments? It is all individual and no one has to say a word about those things.
Comments and your stories are well appreciated here!

It's really hard when you come form another culture, I have also lived in many places from small towns in the Arctic to bustling metropolises, but believe me when I say a lot of women would like to be able to dress-up a bit more if only they knew how. They may not all be looking at you and thinking negative thoughts whilst others may say things because you make them feel less than great about themselves. The fact that you come from 'outside' and you look very different may mean they can focus on your image without giving themselves away about their xenophobic attitude. Just be resolutely you, doing your own thing without worrying, and you may find a lot of people have respect for that, let them change - their minds. My mother used to live in France, people of all ages used to follow me around when we went out, if they were nice they whispered 'le style Anglaise', if they were not they used to snigger, SAs turn-up their nose at my DM boots when trying on McQueen or Gucci dresses, now suddenly their brands sell chunky boots and I am apparently the height of cool - I haven't changed.

Just to also point out, I like the outdoors and I like to dress-up more than occasionally, I don't think that the two are mutually exclusive although certainly the footwear's often different. From what I can see you look lovely and are very glamorous, you don't need to prove to others your worth.

 

[papertiger]

I should also recommend a book that was recommended to me on tPF (I think on this forum's chat thread)
The Thoughtful Dresser: The Art of Adornment, the Pleasures of Shopping, and Why Clothes Matter by Linda Grant. You are not alone.

 

[Purses & Perfumes]

Just to also point out, I like the outdoors and I like to dress-up more than occasionally, I don't think that the two are mutually exclusive although certainly the footwear's often different.

I love the outdoors too, and I like to dress up occasionally. I certainly agree that the two are not mutually exclusive!
Actually, one does not need a huge wardrobe to be well-dressed. A small wardrobe works just fine too. I think it is more important to understand one's own personal style and develop it. Things to take into account while developing a personal style include choosing clothing based on one's lifestyle including colors that look good, styles that make a person feel comfortable and confident, and suit the body type/shape etc.