Thanks! I like the brown tint too and thought it might look nice set in rose gold. At least they have a return policy if I wouldn't be happy with it!
Rose Gold Wedding Ring/Engagement Ring
- Thread starter iheartpandora
- Start date
Iheartpandora what about an oec? A gorgeous one, which I first thought was a rb, was recently posted on the engagement ring thread. I’m an ec girl so I don’t really know what the cut difference is between a rb and an oec, though.
Old European cut. I’m not exactly sure how the faceting is different from an RB.
I know there are some RB experts on this thread. Can you educate us?
Oh! Got it! The old European cuts I have seen don’t seem to be as good in color or clarity, but that might be just the ones I have seen.
If I could interject here. Heart and Arrows is a measure of symmetry in a diamond, while the HCA score provides feedback on the quality of the cut proportions (and so feedback on the light performance). Light performance is not a function of H/A. It is possible to have a diamond with good symmetry (H and A) but poor performance. Once you stay in the range of the Ideal and Super Ideal cut diamonds (and the vendors that specialize in them), then yes, the HCA tool is mostly superfluous, as the vendors who specialize (Whiteflash, Brian Gavin, Victor Canera, Crafted by Infinity) will already be cutting to Ideal proportions. That's part of why they cost more. It sacrifices more rough in cutting to get better proportions than an "average" XXX diamond.
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OEC's have chunkier faceting on the pavilion and usually a smaller table and higher crown. The chunky "flower petal" type facets on the pavilion (the lower girdle facets) eventually began thinning out to higher numbers so instead of lower girdle facets in the 50-60% range they started thinning to 75-80% which makes "arrows" when the symmetry is right. To me, part of the true beauty of the OEC is that each one is entirely different, as they were cut entirely by "eye" by the cutter. There are plenty of crummy ones out there, and you have treat every single one of them as a "fancy cut" on a case by case basis, unlike the more sure fire Ideal cut MRB's but when you find an old cut beauty, it will truly be a beauty. Sadly, there are several factors at play nowadays for the old cuts out there. Dwindling supply of I+ colors because a lot of the whiter stones probably got recut to MRB's at some point and the fact that a lot of the early rough (before the mines in Africa) came from South America and it tended to be clean but lower color. Whereas today there is a lot of whiter rough, but less clean. And in reality, many people who love OEC's (Clearly I am one) tend to like them with a little color anyway, as they pick up a lot of pastels from the environment that way and it is beautiful to see reflected in the facets. Diamonds are just really really expensive mirrors. They reflect the colors around them if they are cut well, and the slightly lower off white colors tend to pick up pretty pastel shades from their surroundings and throw it back to you. Very nice.
That doesn't quite look like and OEC. (ETA- looked at the original pic and it's a Transitional cut- so a bit later than OEC, just prior to modern round brilliant cut).
Here's an OEC
And here's a Modern Round Brilliant Super Ideal Cut from Brian Gavin
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Yes the HCA score has become mostly superfluous.
However you cannot cut a diamond to see hearts and arrows patterning without cutting it to ideal proportions. An ideal cut diamond could possibly not be H&A (but would still be mostly likely beautiful), but all H&A are ideal cut.
https://beyond4cs.com/hearts-and-arrows/
I'm afraid I have to disagree at the moment. I think I asked John Pollard one time some years ago (he's a diamond designer) on Pricescope and I'm fairly sure if you ask on there you will be told it is possible to cut ideal symmetry and possibly still end up with less than ideal performance. Only and ASET or Idealscope image can tell you about the actual light performance. A H/A image does not. You can also have very good performance without H/A (see old cuts which often don't have good symmetry).
But I also disagree with the web page you posted in that Super Ideals definition is based on superior proportion, as opposed to superior symmetry. But a Super Ideal Diamond that has earned its name will have both ideal proportions AND exhibit H/A symmetry. I'm merely saying H/A symmetry does not guarantee ideal performance.
Here is WHiteflash's explanation:
https://www.whiteflash.com/hearts-and-arrows-diamonds.aspx
"Therefore, true Hearts and Arrows patterning is visual evidence of precision craftsmanship that has the potential to maximize light performance."
"It is natural to associate hearts and arrows with ideal cut diamonds, but the two do not always go hand in hand. In fact, ideal light performance and optical symmetry are related but separate qualities. They can be thought of generally as proportions and precision. It is true that H&A patterns are only achievable through a relatively narrow range of proportions, most of which will result in good light performance. And while the level of craftsmanship required to create H&A is also an indication that a cutter is aiming for top performance, it is quite possible to achieve optical symmetry in a diamond with less than optimal proportions. Some proportion sets can result in light leakage and other performance deficits, even when optical precision is excellent. Achieving both simultaneously is the concept behind the “super ideal”."
Sorry to veer off topic OP. But since the thread is asking about diamonds, I thought it would be good to make sure you have good info to make your decisions on.
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Thanks, all! Clearly I don't know much about diamonds and need more education! I think going with a higher grade cut (Ideal, etc.) is the way to go even if I sacrifice on color a little.
My suggestion to you would be if you aren't feeling like slogging through HCA scores on unbranded diamonds of various quality trying to find that lucky "needle" in the haystack, would be to go with a well known super ideal vendor and stick to their "in house" stones (not virtual inventory) which will be stones they cut for their brand. Whiteflash probably has one of the best upgrade policies ever, so unless you are looking for something super specific (like a stone with Fluorescence like I was) then their A Cut Above stones are fantastic- truly stunning. Brian Gavin was part of their original design team before he went his own way, so the cut proportions on WF's and BG's stones will generally be similar, but I like BG's Blue line because I am fascinated with fluorescence and he's a super nice guy. Anything you get from BG "in house" stones (Black, Blue and Signature) are all going to have ideal proportions, but only the signature and black line are cut specifically to get H/A AND optimum proportions. For me, it was worth it to just KNOW the performance was going to be good, and not have to crunch HCA like we did on my original e-ring (even though I ended up with a winner- it was WEEKS of buy and return work to get there and that is not worth it to me....)
And on an ideal cut diamond, I suspect you can deal with more color than you think. They tend to face up whiter because the ideal cut can mask color. My BGD Blue, for instance, is a K with medium fluor. (The picture I posted of the modern stone with the 5 stone band accent. The stones in the 5 stone are H/I) A lot of people THINK they can't take color, because they go to a mall store and look at an uncerted stone with an "in house" grade of H or something like that and it looks yellow because 1) it is poorly cut and 2)the in house grade is WAY off and if it were sent to GIA it would come back as something like an L/M or lower. Caution is always advised when assessing your color tolerance and reading what is on the "label". If it hasn't been graded by GIA or AGS- take it with a grain of salt.
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I am thinking I will go with something like one of the stones I linked above. Excellent (Ideal) cut with the specs I want (VS2 or better) and a higher color, but bigger stone. Plus, if it meets HCA standards, that is a plus I didn't even know about before I started this thread!
I am thinking I will go with something like one of the stones I linked above. Excellent (Ideal) cut with the specs I want (VS2 or better) and a higher color, but bigger stone. Plus, if it meets HCA standards, that is a plus I didn't even know about before I started this thread!
True! You now have a lot more information at your fingertips than you did, and that's all to the good when you are making a really expensive purchase that is really hard to "undo" if you make a mistake. Good luck!
Babyblue033’s modifies oec that I reposted is a K color, too! It faces up much whiter in all her pics. Sounds like there’s a lot to look for in round cuts. I’m an EC girl, myself, so this is educational for me!