Opinions please, is buyer trying to exploit SNAD?

B

batfish

O.G.
Apr 19, 2011
448
0
#1
I sold some low value shoes on ebay recently. I posted them to the buyer and a few days later received a message stating that the buyer had opened a SNAD case with a message stating that they were not as described. The buyer claimed the diamantes on the shoes were falling off whenever they touched the shoes. The buyer requested a refund of the value of the shoes and the postage she had paid to have them sent to her. She also stated that she was not prepared to pay the postage to return the shoes as she would be out of pocket and then threatened that should I not refund she would escalate the case.

In my description I had stated that one stone was missing from one shoe, but when I photographed them, listed them and packaged up to send, none fell off and none appeared to be loose. As soon as I saw the buyer had opened a SNAD, I offered a refund of the value of the shoes and the postage (paid to have the shoes sent to her) on receipt of the returned shoes. This has been refused and she states that she will escalate the case further when she is allowed to do so (i.e. when the time frame for the buyer and seller to try and resolve the case without involving ebay customer services has expired).

She also claims to have called ebay customer services and that they have told her that as the item was SNAD she does not need to return the shoes and that I just have to refund her all her money (i.e. she gets a free pair of shoes). I'm unsure whether this is true.

The only way she could be telling the truth about the diamantes falling off when she only touches the shoe is that either there has been damage in the post (in which case I'd like she shoes back to take this up with the Post Office) or she has deliberately damaged them herself as they were not as she claims when they left my possession.

What do you think? I could just refund her as it is not much money, but it is the principle here and I am really annoyed. This is my first bad experience with a buyer and I know that eBay usually take the side of the buyer in disputes. I have offered a refund on receipt of the returned shoes without any resistance, but I don't see why she should be allowed to keep both the shoes and her money.
 
#2
She is talking rubbish. Even if she escalates the case, eBay will just tell her to return the shoes for a full refund of price and outgoing postage. You are not obliged to refund her return postage. I think she is trying to scare you into refunding without her returning the shoes. The only way she would get a refund and keep the shoes is if eBay award a no fault refund in which they pay out, but this is generally if the seller does not even bother to respond to the case. Do everything by the book, insist the shoes are returned and leave it there.

Sorry this happened to you.
 
#4
AllSaintsAddict said:
She is talking rubbish. Even if she escalates the case, eBay will just tell her to return the shoes for a full refund of price and outgoing postage. You are not obliged to refund her return postage. I think she is trying to scare you into refunding without her returning the shoes. The only way she would get a refund and keep the shoes is if eBay award a no fault refund in which they pay out, but this is generally if the seller does not even bother to respond to the case. Do everything by the book, insist the shoes are returned and leave it there.

Sorry this happened to you.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I have left it that I will offer her a refund on receipt of the returned shoes.

I was a bit upset that the first I knew there was a problem was when I was informed by ebay that a SNAD case had been opened (I had had no previous correspondence from the buyer). I also wasn't impressed with the threat that should I not refund all her money and allow her to keep the shoes that she "will have to open a 'Not as Described' case with eBay Customer Support", which she actually has already done as this text was sent within the ebay message informing me she had opened a case in the resolution centre.
 
#5
Just keep it short and simple. Do you have a return policy? If not, it is up to you how you handle it. You can either tell her to return them and you will refund the purchase price and outgoing shipping or you can refuse a return at all. If you refund her without her having to return them, well, she got a free pair of shoes and you got nothing.
EBay would not be telling her she would not have to return them and that you would have to refund her. That makes no sense.
Others on this board know exactly how to respond to these sort of demands. Hopefully, someone will post!
 
#6
Perhaps your buyer was trying to intimidate you with her ebay cs rep conversation??

Buyers will use these tactics to get their way, IYKWIM.

If & only if you think the condition of the shoes were misdescribed & more diamantes
missing then you perhaps you noticed, would I consider refunding her shipping.

The buyer was clearly in the wrong by not giving you the opportunity to respond
before she opened the SNAD but do think she knew exactly what she was doing.

You do want the shoes back. I'd give her the refund, re-list & post her ID so that
she can be blocked. Sellers don't want buyer like this & for sure you don't want her
to have a free pair of shoes...
 
#7
carlpsmom said:
Just keep it short and simple. Do you have a return policy? If not, it is up to you how you handle it. You can either tell her to return them and you will refund the purchase price and outgoing shipping or you can refuse a return at all. If you refund her without her having to return them, well, she got a free pair of shoes and you got nothing.
EBay would not be telling her she would not have to return them and that you would have to refund her. That makes no sense.
Others on this board know exactly how to respond to these sort of demands. Hopefully, someone will post!
Click to expand...

My returns policy is that I don't accept refunds, but if an item is SNAD the return policy is not relevant. I list items as no returns to stop put people asking for a return if they buy something which doesn't fit or which they change their mind about when it arrives (I am a private seller, not a shop).

I don't think the item is SNAD, as it was exactly as described when I posted it, but there is a chance it was damaged in the post and if it has been damaged then I will refund her. But what I am not prepared to do is just let her have a free pair of shoes and especially not let her have a free pair of shoes when I have absolutely no evidence that the shoes are damaged as she claims. Of course if she is making all this up and is forced to return them, she will probaby damage them and then send them back to me.
 
#8
hotshot said:
Perhaps your buyer was trying to intimidate you with her ebay cs rep conversation??

Buyers will use these tactics to get their way, IYKWIM.

If & only if you think the condition of the shoes were misdescribed & more diamantes
missing then you perhaps you noticed, would I consider refunding her shipping.

The buyer was clearly in the wrong by not giving you the opportunity to respond
before she opened the SNAD but do think she knew exactly what she was doing.

You do want the shoes back. I'd give her the refund, re-list & post her ID so that
she can be blocked. Sellers don't want buyer like this & for sure you don't want her
to have a free pair of shoes...
Click to expand...

I really don't think they were misdescribed, I looked at them pretty closely before listing them to try and find where the missing stone was and also to check that none of the others were about to drop off. Of course they could have been damaged in the post, but I'd still like the shoes back before refunding her.
 
#9
batfish said:
My returns policy is that I don't accept refunds, but if an item is SNAD the return policy is not relevant. I list items as no returns to stop put people asking for a return if they buy something which doesn't fit or which they change their mind about when it arrives (I am a private seller, not a shop).

I don't think the item is SNAD, as it was exactly as described when I posted it, but there is a chance it was damaged in the post and if it has been damaged then I will refund her. But what I am not prepared to do is just let her have a free pair of shoes and especially not let her have a free pair of shoes when I have absolutely no evidence that the shoes are damaged as she claims. Of course if she is making all this up and is forced to return them, she will probaby damage them and then send them back to me.
Click to expand...


Were the shoes packed well?? They would have to be moving around
back & forth alot for diamantes to come off..

Did she send pics of where the "diamantes" fell off??
 
#10
hotshot said:
Were the shoes packed well?? They would have to be moving around
back & forth alot for diamantes to come off..

Did she send pics of where the "diamantes" fell off??
Click to expand...

Yes they were.

No pics, just a demand for a full refund with a refusal to return the shoes as she doesn't want to be out of pocket paying to return them
 
#11
batfish said:
Yes they were.

No pics, just a demand for a full refund with a refusal to return the shoes as she doesn't want to be out of pocket paying to return them
Click to expand...



Many sellers will offer return shipping as a goodwill gesture if they
feel the item has been misrepresented which according to you doesn't
seem to be the case. You mention you looked the diamantes over
to notice if any diamantes were about to drop off & appears they were intact

In this case, it is really your call. This is a nasty buyer & unpleasant
in her demands to boot.

Once you have the shoes back & inspect them, the decision should
become clearer as to what you will feel best in doing.
 
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#12
hotshot said:
Many sellers will offer return shipping as a goodwill gesture if they
feel the item has been misrepresented.

In this case, it is really your call. This is a nasty buyer & unpleasant
in her demands to boot.

Once you have the shoes back & inspect them, the decision should
become clearer as to what you will feel best in doing.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your help.

I agree, the issue (amongst others) is that she has said she will not return the shoes. If she did return them and I felt that she was telling the truth and they had got damaged in the post, I would refund her return postage, but she has refused to do this and so I have no evidence at all to back up her claims of damage. I really think it is unfair that she expects to be able to keep the shoes and have a refund.

I like to think I am a reasonable person, but I think her demands are unreasonable and I think she has been unjustifiably nasty and aggressive in her manner. If she'd just messaged me through ebay saying there was a problem, I'd have offered her a refund on return of the shoes and I think opening a SNAD without any prior correspondence to me was unnecessary.
 
#13
batfish said:
Thank you for your help.

I agree, the issue (amongst others) is that she has said she will not return the shoes. If she did return them and I felt that she was telling the truth and they had got damaged in the post, I would refund her return postage, but she has refused to do this and so I have no evidence at all to back up her claims of damage. I really think it is unfair that she expects to be able to keep the shoes and have a refund.

I like to think I am a reasonable person, but I think her demands are unreasonable and I think she has been unjustifiably nasty and aggressive in her manner. If she'd just messaged me through ebay saying there was a problem, I'd have offered her a refund on return of the shoes and I think opening a SNAD without any prior correspondence to me was unnecessary.
Click to expand...

I suppose you have to consider which is the lesser of two evils in a way.

Refunding her shipping & getting back the shoes or having her go
further than what she has already done..

Sorry that you have to deal with this...
 
#14
Just keep responding to the dispute with "return shoes for refund."

Ebay policy states that buyers pay return shipping and she's FOS that she gets to keep the shoes and the refund.
 
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