Are B bags cruelty free?

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#16
Cait said:
At the risk of derailing this thread, I think people like Ingrid Newkirk are more interested in press for themselves, than actually helping animals. I certainly don't think all animal rights organizations are nutty, but there's a big difference between say, the ASPCA or Humane Society, and PeTA.
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The fact that we have this thread means that we are not blind careless people who don't care how these beautiful bags are produced. I think all discussions are valid and good. We care and are aware.

We certainly won't be able to agree with everyone's approach. Yes, there are plenty of people who are out for more notariety than you and I would pursue or perhaps go a bit far with what should or shouldn't be... but as long as lives are saved, suffering is lessened, and awareness is raised, I try to see the net effect as positive. We don't have to agree with all the tactics but hey, I'm sure glad that there are people who are putting alot of energy and time into protecting and minimizing the suffering as much as possible.
 
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#17
This is an interesting question.. I eat meat that is free range and killed humanely (UK meat) so I accept leather is a bi-product of this. I don't agree with fur and also food from an animal that has been mistreated (battery hens, veal, foie gras). So I wonder if Bal leather is a bi-product or if the animal has been reared just for its skin? And is it slaughtered humanely? If the animals were kept in similar conditions as a veal calf is, then I think I would not buy their bags anymore
 
#18
These videos are worth watching :smile:

The process of how leather skins are made, dyed, refined etc - they mentioned about how the leather is evenly sprayed and two-toned colouring is possible and it gets me thinking about how we usually describe our Bal bags to be evenly distressed and some colours having the undertones etc lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu6wGtT-lSo&feature=related

And whilst this video isn't really a Balenciaga bag production process; they should be close given Dior is part of LVMH which is the main competitor of PPR Group (which includes Balenciaga).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hheikAwdad0&feature=related

Back to the topic, PPR & LVMH are the biggest luxury conglomerate groups; I'm sure they will follow the standard industry practice and also buy from suppliers with at least decent reputation to protect their public image. In saying that, those leather manufacturers would also buy the animal hides as a bi-product from the meat industry - I'm assuming they should be animal cruelty free otherwise there would have been huge media frenzies over this whole issue by now.
 
#19
xNadx said:
This is an interesting question.. I eat meat that is free range and killed humanely (UK meat) so I accept leather is a bi-product of this. I don't agree with fur and also food from an animal that has been mistreated (battery hens, veal, foie gras). So I wonder if Bal leather is a bi-product or if the animal has been reared just for its skin? And is it slaughtered humanely? If the animals were kept in similar conditions as a veal calf is, then I think I would not buy their bags anymore
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You and I are alike in our thinking. I simply won't support any industry that I know for sure uses inhumane methods. I never eat veal or foie gras, etc. I saw fox tails (to be used as charms!) on the Neiman Marcus site...just for $125 or $150. Made me sooooo utterly sad to know that this animal, which was most certainly not killed as a food source, had to die so its tail and skin could be used as decoration. Chances are good it didn't die a humane death either. :sad:
 
#20
xNadx said:
This is an interesting question.. I eat meat that is free range and killed humanely (UK meat) so I accept leather is a bi-product of this. I don't agree with fur and also food from an animal that has been mistreated (battery hens, veal, foie gras). So I wonder if Bal leather is a bi-product or if the animal has been reared just for its skin? And is it slaughtered humanely? If the animals were kept in similar conditions as a veal calf is, then I think I would not buy their bags anymore
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Actually, it's been shown geese raised on foie-gras farms are less stressed than geese existing in the wild. I don't have Youtube up on my phone, but if you search up Anthony Bourdain and gastronomy or foie-gras, he does a pretty in-depth report.
 
#21
xNadx said:
This is an interesting question.. I eat meat that is free range and killed humanely (UK meat) so I accept leather is a bi-product of this. I don't agree with fur and also food from an animal that has been mistreated (battery hens, veal, foie gras). So I wonder if Bal leather is a bi-product or if the animal has been reared just for its skin? And is it slaughtered humanely? If the animals were kept in similar conditions as a veal calf is, then I think I would not buy their bags anymore
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Cait said:
Actually, it's been shown geese raised on foie-gras farms are less stressed than geese existing in the wild. I don't have Youtube up on my phone, but if you search up Anthony Bourdain and gastronomy or foie-gras, he does a pretty in-depth report.
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The video states that they are raised for 16 weeks on this farm...fine. However, it also states they are force fed for 15 days to blow up their livers.

I would like to know who would find it less stressful to have a tube or funnel shoved down their throats and force fed so that their livers bloat to between six and ten times their normal size than to live freely out in the wild as a wild animal should.
 
#22
hrhsunshine said:
The video states that they are raised for 16 weeks on this farm...fine. However, it also states they are force fed for 15 days to blow up their livers.

I would like to know who would find it less stressful to have a tube or funnel shoved down their throats and force fed so that their livers bloat to between six and ten times their normal size than to live freely out in the wild as a wild animal should.
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I think Bourdain's report was a hell of a lot more credible than the propoganda PeTA puts out, but agree to disagree.
 
#23
Cait said:
I think Bourdain's report was a hell of a lot more credible than the propoganda PeTA puts out, but agree to disagree.
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What I wrote about foie gras wasn't from PETA.

Yes, agree to disagree. Even though we disagree, it's better to be passionate about important issues than apathetic :yes:
 
#24
Even though we have gone off topic a bit, I have heard that the geese are force fed. I don't know whether this is true, but it sounds like a horrible thing to do. An animal should have a good life before it is slaughtered for food. But I guess it will always happen because some people do not think about the animals
 
#25
hrhsunshine said:
You and I are alike in our thinking. I simply won't support any industry that I know for sure uses inhumane methods. I never eat veal or foie gras, etc. I saw fox tails (to be used as charms!) on the Neiman Marcus site...just for $125 or $150. Made me sooooo utterly sad to know that this animal, which was most certainly not killed as a food source, had to die so its tail and skin could be used as decoration. Chances are good it didn't die a humane death either. :sad:
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Things like this make me feel sad because its so unnecessary :sad:
I heard that some people catch crabs for their claws and then throw the crab back ino the sea. If there is any truth to this then I think that it's absolutely disgusting
 
#26
xNadx said:
Even though we have gone off topic a bit, I have heard that the geese are force fed. I don't know whether this is true, but it sounds like a horrible thing to do. An animal should have a good life before it is slaughtered for food. But I guess it will always happen because some people do not think about the animals
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The 'force-feeding' undergone by geese is not the same thing as force-feeding of a mammal or human. Geese lack a gag reflex as the vetrinarian at the D'Artagnon video points out. It's not nearly as cruel as some of the more militant animal rights groups would have us believe.

Really, it's a rather presumptuous argument to make that if one enjoys their pate, they must not care about animals. I do care about animals; but it is the natural order to eat them. Other animals consume prey; humans themselves are animals and no different.
 
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#28
xNadx said:
Things like this make me feel sad because its so unnecessary :sad:
I heard that some people catch crabs for their claws and then throw the crab back ino the sea. If there is any truth to this then I think that it's absolutely disgusting
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Cait said:
The 'force-feeding' undergone by geese is not the same thing as force-feeding of a mammal or human. Geese lack a gag reflex as the vetrinarian at the D'Artagnon video points out. It's not nearly as cruel as some of the more militant animal rights groups would have us believe.

Really, it's a rather presumptuous argument to make that if one enjoys their pate, they must not care about animals. I do care about animals; but it is the natural order to eat them. Other animals consume prey; humans themselves are animals and no different.
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Just because the birds don't have a gag reflex doesn't mean the process of being raised for foie gras isn't cruel...Opposition comes from beyond groups you call militant, eg. The Humane Society and the ASPCA oppose foie gras for all the other factors that create a cruel situation. The repeated shoving of tubes down the throat cause damage to the throat and beak. Birds' throats are even slit for a feeding tube. They can live in horridly tight filthy cages where they cannot even stretch their wings. Does anyone know what it's like to have your liver blown up to 6-10 times its normal size? I suspect it doesn't feel good. As a results, birds can become extremely ill, have breathing and movement problems and vomit undigested food.

Yes...Humans and other animals eat meat. However, humans ARE different from all the other animals...we have the cognitive ability to tell if an animal is treated and raised inhumanely. If you were a calf, would you want to live in a pen so small that you cannot walk or turn and purposely be made anemic? We know that is not a humane way to raise any animal for food or not.

Humane Society International had this petition and video. It states that "in recognition of the inherent cruelty it inflicts on animals. Force feeding is prohibited in much of Europe including the United Kingdom, Germany, Denmark, Italy and Poland, as well as Argentina, Israel and in the U.S. state of California." I wouldn't call these militant animal rights groups. These are countries that recognize the overall cruelty of this process.

http://e-activist.com/ea-action/action?ea.client.id=105&ea.campaign.id=14396

Humans eat meat BUT there are cruel and inhumane methods that are absolutely unnecessary to keep feeding people. Animals shouldn't have to live torturous lives and slow painful deaths for us to enjoy "gourmet" meals. This view is not just from so called militant animal rights groups, either.
 
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#29
hrhsunshine said:
Just because the birds don't have a gag reflex doesn't mean the process of being raised for foie gras isn't cruel...Opposition comes from beyond groups you call militant, eg. The Humane Society and the ASPCA oppose foie gras for all the other factors that create a cruel situation. The repeated shoving of tubes down the throat cause damage to the throat and beak. Birds' throats are even slit for a feeding tube. They can live in horridly tight filthy cages where they cannot even stretch their wings. Does anyone know what it's like to have your liver blown up to 6-10 times its normal size? I suspect it doesn't feel good. As a results, birds can become extremely ill, have breathing and movement problems and vomit undigested food.

Yes...Humans and other animals eat meat. However, humans ARE different from all the other animals...we have the cognitive ability to tell if an animal is treated and raised inhumanely. If you were a calf, would you want to live in a pen so small that you cannot walk or turn and purposely be made anemic? We know that is not a humane way to raise any animal for food or not.

This is my position. Humans eat meat BUT there are cruel and inhumane methods that are absolutely unnecessary to keep feeding people. Animals shouldn't have to live torturous lives and slow painful deaths for us to enjoy "gourmet" meals. This view is not just from so called militant animal rights groups, either.
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With all due respect, again: I'm sure this vet has a lot more of an education on animal biology and what is cruel physically to an animal than Ingrid Newkirk does. He's the one with the schooling; not her.

Did you actually watch the video in question? Because all of the points you've made were refuted quite easily in said video by the man with the white coat.
 
#30
Cait said:
With all due respect, again: I'm sure this vet has a lot more of an education on animal biology and what is cruel physically to an animal than Ingrid Newkirk does. He's the one with the schooling; not her.

Did you actually watch the video in question? Because all of the points you've made were refuted quite easily in said video by the man with the white coat.
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With all due respect, I am not sure why you keep focusing on just Ingrid Newkirk. Watching just one video doesn't negate the vast amounts of video showing cruel practices that inflict suffering.

As I added to my prior post, a bunch of countries and California, plus the Humane Society and ASPCA don't seem like a group of publicity hungry militant groups.
 
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