received a plastic bag instead of a leather jacket!

[kerosundae]

I bought a jacket on ebay.fr for 600 euros. Before bidding, the seller agreed that I could pick it up.
When I paid, the delivery address was my parents' home in the US, because that's my paypal address, but it was irrelevant, because I was picking it up in Paris anyway.
I never heard back (phone or email) from the seller since I paid 2 weeks ago, and was about to file an INR claim when I got an email from my sister saying that an express mail box came with a plastic dry-cleaning bag inside. She signed for it without opening. She hasn't sent me pictures yet.

I guess I have 2 options:
1. file SNAD immediately, but how do I prove that what's in the bag was what she sent? I haven't gotten a picture of the box, I'm guessing the weight should be proof, but what if somehow, the weight marked on the box is the same as a jacket? or what if there's no weight marked?

2. I tell the seller that I have a video of the package being opened with a plastic bag inside, and that I would go to the police immediately unless she gives me the jacket. basically giving her another chance.

Am I being too optimistic or naive with option #2?

 

[lalachka]

I bought a jacket on ebay.fr for 600 euros. Before bidding, the seller agreed that I could pick it up.
When I paid, the delivery address was my parents' home in the US, because that's my paypal address, but it was irrelevant, because I was picking it up in Paris anyway.
I never heard back (phone or email) from the seller since I paid 2 weeks ago, and was about to file an INR claim when I got an email from my sister saying that an express mail box came with a plastic dry-cleaning bag inside. She signed for it without opening. She hasn't sent me pictures yet.

I guess I have 2 options:
1. file SNAD immediately, but how do I prove that what's in the bag was what she sent? I haven't gotten a picture of the box, I'm guessing the weight should be proof, but what if somehow, the weight marked on the box is the same as a jacket? or what if there's no weight marked?

2. I tell the seller that I have a video of the package being opened with a plastic bag inside, and that I would go to the police immediately unless she gives me the jacket. basically giving her another chance.

Am I being too optimistic or naive with option #2?

hey, here's my take on it with the disclaimer that i never filed anything myself and all my knowledge comes from reading ebay/paypal policies and forums

you don't have any proof that what's in the box is what was sent. but that's always the case when it comes to cases like these. even if you taped yourself opening the box - ebay/paypal wouldn't accept it.

so my take is, that in cases like these they know that it's a "he said she said" so you will probably get refunded. they side with the buyer because there's a chance that if they don't - the buyer will file a chargeback and the seller can't do much.

that's what i gather from what i've read.

i doubt this will work. i don't know if there's harm in trying it, maybe someone else can answer this, but if this was me i think i'd not talk to the seller except letting them know (WITHOUT THREATS) that's what you got and see what they say. (i don't think this will help, if they really tried to scam then they won't give up so easy)
and THEN try ebay/paypal. i think ebay is better in your case. but again, let someone else answer this part.

 

[BeenBurned]

so my take is, that in cases like these they know that it's a "he said she said" so you will probably get refunded. they side with the buyer because there's a chance that if they don't - the buyer will file a chargeback and the seller can't do much.

that's what i gather from what i've read.

First, OP, if what you've described is accurate, I feel for you.

Regarding the above, unfortunately, I disagree. The seller shipped an item, has proof of delivery AND signature showing it was received and signed at the address associated with the paypal account. So in ebay's eyes, the seller did her job and the buyer would probably be SOL unless she can somehow prove the fraud.

--------------------

What I'm confused about is why the seller mailed the item when there was an agreement to meet and make the exchange in person. And why did you, as buyer, make a payment through paypal if you were meeting her to get the jacket?

 

[lalachka]

Regarding the above, unfortunately, I disagree. The seller shipped an item, has proof of delivery AND signature showing it was received and signed at the address associated with the paypal account. So in ebay's eyes, the seller did her job and the buyer would probably be SOL unless she can somehow prove the fraud.

yes, i agree about SC and stuff, i was only saying this because i remember (but won't be able to find probably) a thread where someone got scammed like that (she was the seller and the buyer was scamming) and she got ruled against her and paypal wouldn't even make the buyer mail the empty box back.

it got stuck in my mind because of that moment, because the seller was fuming about this part of it, that PP said there's nothing to send back because it's an empty box.

and i think i read a few more like that.

but as i said above, i can be wrong, i read way too many threads and might've gotten some mixed up.

 

[gidramom]

I think... you need to collect more information about the package before taking any action. Pictures of the package/contents, custom form(it should have weight and value), tracking number etc... Had you contacted sellers in past 2 weeks before you received the email from your sister?

Was it Isabel Marant? I just remembered an old thread about a seller sending a different stuff.
http://forum.purseblog.com/ebay-forum/bought-item-thru-paypal-intl-seller-recd-something-694381.html

 

[northerndancer]

I bought a jacket on ebay.fr for 600 euros. Before bidding, the seller agreed that I could pick it up.
When I paid, the delivery address was my parents' home in the US, because that's my paypal address, but it was irrelevant, because I was picking it up in Paris anyway.
I never heard back (phone or email) from the seller since I paid 2 weeks ago, and was about to file an INR claim when I got an email from my sister saying that an express mail box came with a plastic dry-cleaning bag inside. She signed for it without opening. She hasn't sent me pictures yet.

I guess I have 2 options:
1. file SNAD immediately, but how do I prove that what's in the bag was what she sent? I haven't gotten a picture of the box, I'm guessing the weight should be proof, but what if somehow, the weight marked on the box is the same as a jacket? or what if there's no weight marked?

2. I tell the seller that I have a video of the package being opened with a plastic bag inside, and that I would go to the police immediately unless she gives me the jacket. basically giving her another chance.

Am I being too optimistic or naive with option #2?

This is a bluff, right? It is very dangerous to start out this way. If she calls your bluff, your credibility will be compromised. And, for this situation, you will need all the credibility you can get.

First thing is to contact the seller. If she is unresponsive and/or unhelpful, the next recourse is to file a SNAD with Paypal.

You didn't mention why two weeks went by when you had arranged a pick up. Was the seller waiting to hear from you? Or vice-versa?

I have paid with Paypal for an item I picked up. The risk is actually more with the seller in these situations because there is no tracking to say it is delivered.

 

[skislope15]

good point there should be a weight somewhere on that package I'm curious to see what the seller listed it as.

I think... you need to collect more information about the package before taking any action. Pictures of the package/contents, custom form(it should have weight and value), tracking number etc... Had you contacted sellers in past 2 weeks before you received the email from your sister?

Was it Isabel Marant? I just remembered an old thread about a seller sending a different stuff.
http://forum.purseblog.com/ebay-forum/bought-item-thru-paypal-intl-seller-recd-something-694381.html

 

[BeenBurned]

1. file SNAD immediately, but how do I prove that what's in the bag was what she sent? I haven't gotten a picture of the box, I'm guessing the weight should be proof, but what if somehow, the weight marked on the box is the same as a jacket? or what if there's no weight marked?

good point there should be a weight somewhere on that package I'm curious to see what the seller listed it as.

The weight doesn't prove a heckuva lot because if a seller is a seasoned scammer, she'd be aware of the weight issue and just print a shipping label on which she claimed a heavier item and overpaid on shipping.

The post office isn't going to question or complain about a package with excess postage applied. They only care if the package is marked as weighing less than actual, in which case they are being shortchanged.

The post office is only too happy to get more than it rightfully deserves.

So if the seller knows what she's doing, prints a shipping label with a "4 lb." weight, no one at the p.o. with raise an eyebrow. (In fact, they'll probably laugh all the way to the bank.)

 

[BeenBurned]

I have paid with Paypal for an item I picked up. The risk is actually more with the seller in these situations because there is no tracking to say it is delivered.

I think your assumption is correct in the case of the buyer actually picking up an item from the seller after using PP to pay for the item but in this case, the seller received payment and has proof of shipment and signature. So paying through PP is the OP's undoing.

In the case of a buyer picking an item up from a seller and paying cash for the item is less risky to a seller. Seller has the cash, buyer can't claim INR because buyer has no proof of payment (as she would with PP) and both parties can vet each other, the payment and the item.

 

[red sole junkie]

I bought a jacket on ebay.fr for 600 euros. Before bidding, the seller agreed that I could pick it up.
When I paid, the delivery address was my parents' home in the US, because that's my paypal address, but it was irrelevant, because I was picking it up in Paris anyway.
I never heard back (phone or email) from the seller since I paid 2 weeks ago, and was about to file an INR claim when I got an email from my sister saying that an express mail box came with a plastic dry-cleaning bag inside. She signed for it without opening. She hasn't sent me pictures yet.

I guess I have 2 options:
1. file SNAD immediately, but how do I prove that what's in the bag was what she sent? I haven't gotten a picture of the box, I'm guessing the weight should be proof, but what if somehow, the weight marked on the box is the same as a jacket? or what if there's no weight marked?

2. I tell the seller that I have a video of the package being opened with a plastic bag inside, and that I would go to the police immediately unless she gives me the jacket. basically giving her another chance.

Am I being too optimistic or naive with option #2?

File a SNAD immediately. Do it thru Ebay and when they ask you if you want a refund or the item please ask for the refund. Do not try to get the item from this person. It is very obvious that he intended to scam you from the beginning. Do not be afraid and do not budge if the seller denies sending a bag instead of the jacket. You paid for 1 thing and got something totally different. Ebay buyer protection MUST cover you!! Good Luck

 

[jenayb]

File a SNAD immediately. Do it thru Ebay and when they ask you if you want a refund or the item please ask for the refund. Do not try to get the item from this person. It is very obvious that he intended to scam you from the beginning. Do not be afraid and do not budge if the seller denies sending a bag instead of the jacket. You paid for 1 thing and got something totally different. Ebay buyer protection MUST cover you!! Good Luck

I would not advise filing through eBay... Paypal will side with the buyer way before eBay will.......

 

[Love Of My Life]

^ If worse comes to worse, the OP could file a chargeback with her credit card
company if that is how she paid....she perhaps would have to sign an affadavit
if asked & she should keep the "box"...this is really unbelievable!!!

 

[jenayb]

^ If worse comes to worse, the OP could file a chargeback with her credit card
company if that is how she paid....she perhaps would have to sign an affadavit
if asked & she should keep the "box"...this is really unbelievable!!!

Yep, and honestly at this point, if I were her, I'd prepare to file that chargeback NOW.

 

[limom]

Yep, and honestly at this point, if I were her, I'd prepare to file that chargeback NOW.

And some type of Police Report.
OP, were you supposed to pick up the Jacket in Paris? If so get in touch with your local Police station, you might need a "proces verbal" for Ebay or the CC.
In any case, the local authority and Ebay will help you with the necessary paperwork.
So sorry.

 

[littlerock]

OP- Do you have emails or ebay messages that clearly state the plan to pick up the item? Just thinking ahead for in case you need back up for a chargeback and/ or police report.

I would also suggest filing a SNAD, be it paypal or ebay. Then a chargeback if that fails.