Woman Says Flu Shot Triggered Rare Disorder

[jellybebe]

I already posted this on another thread but I figure it would be useful to post this in as many places as possible. I just finished a neurosciences block in school and had the opportunity to work with a lot of good neurologists. We showed two of them the videos of this woman (one of whom is a movement specialist who sees this kind of thing) and they both said that her reaction is psychogenic (ie. She is faking it, consciously or subconsciously). The inability to walk forwards is plausible, but they said that some of her arm movements, her inability to speak properly despite having a normal face and her lack of pain (the muscles are normally extremely tight and very painful) are not seen in true dystonia.

So I hope that puts some of your minds at rest. This is likely a publicity stunt or the poor girl has some major psychiatric issues to deal with.

[envyme]

wow...

Originally Posted by jellybebe

I already posted this on another thread but I figure it would be useful to post this in as many places as possible. I just finished a neurosciences block in school and had the opportunity to work with a lot of good neurologists. We showed two of them the videos of this woman (one of whom is a movement specialist who sees this kind of thing) and they both said that her reaction is psychogenic (ie. She is faking it, consciously or subconsciously). The inability to walk forwards is plausible, but they said that some of her arm movements, her inability to speak properly despite having a normal face and her lack of pain (the muscles are normally extremely tight and very painful) are not seen in true dystonia. So I hope that puts some of your minds at rest. This is likely a publicity stunt or the poor girl has some major psychiatric issues to deal with.

[tlloveshim]

Originally Posted by jellybebe

I already posted this on another thread but I figure it would be useful to post this in as many places as possible. I just finished a neurosciences block in school and had the opportunity to work with a lot of good neurologists. We showed two of them the videos of this woman (one of whom is a movement specialist who sees this kind of thing) and they both said that her reaction is psychogenic (ie. She is faking it, consciously or subconsciously). The inability to walk forwards is plausible, but they said that some of her arm movements, her inability to speak properly despite having a normal face and her lack of pain (the muscles are normally extremely tight and very painful) are not seen in true dystonia. So I hope that puts some of your minds at rest. This is likely a publicity stunt or the poor girl has some major psychiatric issues to deal with.

If it's a hoax, publicity stunt or she has psychiatric issues then why did John Hopkins (and Fairfax Inova) diagnose her with dystonia? Is it common practice for those in the medical community to make a diagnosis via video? What you're stating is really a matter of opinion as you probably aren't able to link to a credible source, correct? Here's another credible source that reports that John Hopkins did in fact diagnose her condition as dystonia:

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/he...-64189142.html

Quote:

Finally, doctors at Johns Hopkins figured it out, diagnosing dystonia, a rare neurological condition with no cure brought on by infections, brain trauma or, as is believed in her case, reaction to medication. It causes body jerks and abnormal or repetitive movements.

You are entitled to your opinion of course but it is an opinion which is opposed presently with most of the information that we currently have from reliable sources. I find it unfair to accuse this person of faking this or having a psychiatric disorder especially when a reputable medical facility such as John Hopkins has documented her condition and diagnosed it. And that of course is just my opinion.

[kristie]

Originally Posted by jellybebe

This is likely a publicity stunt or the poor girl has some major psychiatric issues to deal with.

Wow, that is just plain cold.......
After seeing the video, I definitely do not think she could possibly be faking it. Misdiagnosis of dystonia perhaps but faking it for publicity?? No.

[Iscats]

This is crazy! I have dystonia in my left foot and leg due to a car accident last year. I do not have a head injury, I have a back injury. The Dr I see says it can be from any kind of trauma. Dystonia is the muscles working against each other, it feels like my foot is being twisted inward. I have a hard time thinking a flu shot could do this.

[~Fabulousity~]

Originally Posted by tlloveshim

If it's a hoax, publicity stunt or she has psychiatric issues then why did John Hopkins (and Fairfax Inova) diagnose her with dystonia? Is it common practice for those in the medical community to make a diagnosis via video? What you're stating is really a matter of opinion as you probably aren't able to link to a credible source, correct? Here's another credible source that reports that John Hopkins did in fact diagnose her condition as dystonia: http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/he...-64189142.html You are entitled to your opinion of course but it is an opinion which is opposed presently with most of the information that we currently have from reliable sources. I find it unfair to accuse this person of faking this or having a psychiatric disorder especially when a reputable medical facility such as John Hopkins has documented her condition and diagnosed it. And that of course is just my opinion.

Thank you for posting this, I have been waiting to see if she would be diagnosed.

[Aslan]

Psychogenic doesn't mean that a person is "faking" their illness. It simply means that the disorder has psychological cause. Just because an illness may be psychosomatic doesn't mean that the patient is malingering.

Yes, the doctors diagnosed her as having dystonia, but their are several forms of dystonia, and one of them is psychogenic.

[sweetneet]

Originally Posted by Aslan

Psychogenic doesn't mean that a person is "faking" their illness. It simply means that the disorder has psychological cause. Just because an illness may be psychosomatic doesn't mean that the patient is malingering. Yes, the doctors diagnosed her as having dystonia, but their are several forms of dystonia, and one of them is psychogenic.

thanks for posting this.

I had an aunt that developed severe pain in her leg joints and became unable to walk, shortly after her husband suffered a sudden & severe stroke. She went to dozens of doctors and none of them could really figure out what she had..after a while they just figured the stress of her husband's illness was literally giving her physical pain. I also had a family member who lost the ability to speak after witnessing a very violent/traumatic event. In those cases, the affected person is not "faking it", the disability/pain is very real even though it cannot be pinpointed to a "physical" cause (e.g. a tumor, etc)

I found it interesting how this woman's symptoms completely disappeared (she could move/talk normally) while she was running. That seems to support something that's psychosomatic. I am still not convinced it had anything to do with the vaccine, as there is absolutely no evidence to support that...it's still all pure speculation at this point.

[tlloveshim]

Originally Posted by Aslan

Psychogenic doesn't mean that a person is "faking" their illness. It simply means that the disorder has psychological cause. Just because an illness may be psychosomatic doesn't mean that the patient is malingering. Yes, the doctors diagnosed her as having dystonia, but their are several forms of dystonia, and one of them is psychogenic.

Thank you for this explanation. This I can understand and agree with but for someone to accuse her of faking it as a publicity stunt or some kind of hoax is unfair since she had been diagnosed by a reputable medical institution.

So if it is psychogenic does that mean it can disappear as quickly as it came on? If it's not psychogenic then there's no cure, correct? Sad either way, in her head or not.

For more information on psychogenic dystonia check here: http://www.dystonia-foundation.org/p...ystonia/85.php

Quick Facts about Psychogenic Dystonia (from the above link)

* The term psychogenic dystonia refers to the uncommon but well-documented situation where dystonia is secondary to psychological disturbances.


* Importantly, in all but the most unusual cases, the process is completely subconscious. The individual is not consciously aware of causing the abnormal movements.


* In most cases only an experienced movement disorder expert can identify the subtle aspects of an individual’s history and physical examination that support a psychogenic cause for the symptoms.


* Psychogenic dystonia is considered a form of “conversion disorder.” The underlying psychiatric disturbance varies from patient to patient.


* The diagnosis of psychogenic dystonia can be exceedingly difficult. Secondary dystonias and psychogenic dystonias, in particular, may have similar characteristics.


* Cases of psychogenic dystonia may account for less than 3% of all dystonia patients.


* The best course of treatment may be a combination of medication and psychotherapy under the care of a team of professional, for example a movement disorder expert, a psychiatrist, and a counselor who specializes in cognitive-behavior techniques.

Very interesting!

[kimberf]

If it were from the flu shot, it seems unlikely that this one woman would be the only person ever known to have gotten dystonia from it. Though I'm guessing a couple of other cases may come out of the woodwork now...

Here's an interesting, well-written blog entry on it here from a neurologist concurring with the psychogenic diagnosis. It's long, so I won't repost the whole thing: http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1152.

Excerpt:
The movements and symptoms that Ms. Jennings displays on the public videos I have seen (linked to above) are not compatible with the diagnosis of dystonia, or any other movement disorder. Dystonia is one type of involuntary contraction of muscles. It can be reduced or exacerbated by certain movements or positions, and there are “task specific” dystonia, such as writer’s cramp, that come out only with certain activity. Jennings does not display the type of movements that are consistent with dystonia. Her speech and movement are, however, very suggestive of a psychogenic disorder.

This also seems to be the consensus opinion of experts who have viewed this case. The Dystonia Medical Research Foundation had this to say about the case:

Because of the concern of individuals with dystonia as to whether or not to get a flu shot because of this reported case, we have sought the opinion of dystonia experts on this case. Based on the footage that has been shared with the public, it is their unanimous consensus that this case does not appear to be dystonia.

The one news report that I saw that actually consulted an expert for their opinion was Fox News. Leigh Vinocur, and emergency room physician, was interviewed and relayed the opinion that the neurologists she consulted were of the opinion that Jennings’ symptoms were consistent with a psychogenic disorder. In other words – her symptoms are not neurological, they are psychological. This does not mean she has any insight or voluntary control over her symptoms – they are involuntary and “real” – just not neurological in origin. Symptoms such as this are not uncommon reactions to emotional stress in some individuals. Given the evidence presented, I think this is a reasonable opinion.

Dr. Vinocur also points out that there are no reported cases of true dystonia resulting from the flu vaccine – this is not a known or established vaccine reaction.

Here is another interview on Fox with a movement disorder specialist, Dr. Stephen Grill, who concurs that (based upon the video, and not personal examination) Ms. Jennings does not have true dystonia but psychogenic dystonia.

[Iscats]

I have had dystonia for over a year now, it is very painful and can be debilitating. My leg and foot muscles have been "contracting" since my accident. The first dianosis the Dr's always have is psychogenic dystonia. I believe that Dystonia is still a mystery. There is no cure, there are medications with terrible side effects and botox injections. I hope the best for her.

[sweetneet]

Originally Posted by kimberf

If it were from the flu shot, it seems unlikely that this one woman would be the only person ever known to have gotten dystonia from it. Though I'm guessing a couple of other cases may come out of the woodwork now... Here's an interesting, well-written blog entry on it here from a neurologist concurring with the psychogenic diagnosis. It's long, so I won't repost the whole thing: http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1152. Excerpt: The movements and symptoms that Ms. Jennings displays on the public videos I have seen (linked to above) are not compatible with the diagnosis of dystonia, or any other movement disorder. Dystonia is one type of involuntary contraction of muscles. It can be reduced or exacerbated by certain movements or positions, and there are “task specific” dystonia, such as writer’s cramp, that come out only with certain activity. Jennings does not display the type of movements that are consistent with dystonia. Her speech and movement are, however, very suggestive of a psychogenic disorder. This also seems to be the consensus opinion of experts who have viewed this case. The Dystonia Medical Research Foundation had this to say about the case: Because of the concern of individuals with dystonia as to whether or not to get a flu shot because of this reported case, we have sought the opinion of dystonia experts on this case. Based on the footage that has been shared with the public, it is their unanimous consensus that this case does not appear to be dystonia. The one news report that I saw that actually consulted an expert for their opinion was Fox News. Leigh Vinocur, and emergency room physician, was interviewed and relayed the opinion that the neurologists she consulted were of the opinion that Jennings’ symptoms were consistent with a psychogenic disorder. In other words – her symptoms are not neurological, they are psychological. This does not mean she has any insight or voluntary control over her symptoms – they are involuntary and “real” – just not neurological in origin. Symptoms such as this are not uncommon reactions to emotional stress in some individuals. Given the evidence presented, I think this is a reasonable opinion. Dr. Vinocur also points out that there are no reported cases of true dystonia resulting from the flu vaccine – this is not a known or established vaccine reaction. Here is another interview on Fox with a movement disorder specialist, Dr. Stephen Grill, who concurs that (based upon the video, and not personal examination) Ms. Jennings does not have true dystonia but psychogenic dystonia.

thanks for posting this. this makes a lot of sense.

[Litigatrix]

Apparently she is miraculously better.

http://www.examiner.com/x-12517-Miam...oxicity-injury

[lovehermes]

Originally Posted by Litigatrix

Apparently she is miraculously better. http://www.examiner.com/x-12517-Miami-Holistic-Health-Examiner~y2009m11d7-Desiree-Jennings-and-her-doctor-share-about-her-rapid-recovery-from-vaccine-toxicity-injury

Wow...thanks for the good news!

[Bag*Snob]

Originally Posted by Litigatrix

I am personally of the opinion that her miraculous cure for an incurable disease after a month of suffering is pretty strong evidence that the only true ailment she was suffering from was lack of attention.

LOL Personally, I agree with you!!!