Mother who forgot baby in car wants changes made to car seats

[chag]

Look at it this way. This mothers every waking moment is seeing the whole incident in her mind forever and ever. When she goes to sleep she sees it. I imagine the dreams about it are horrific. I know that's not as rough physically as being in prison but don't you think it's bad enough? Seeing your baby dead in your minds eye forever and not being able to save her? For me I'd rather lay down and die

[chag]

Originally Posted by nataliam1976

so do you think that if those were not parents and it was truly accidental, they shouldnt bear any consequences?

The mother had consequences, is it that it wasn't prison time? If it were truely accidental I think the sentence this mother was given or something similar would be enough. Prison should be for those more deserving, like those that would take a childs life gleefully

[merika]

Originally Posted by nataliam1976

so do you think that if those were not parents and it was truly accidental, they shouldnt bear any consequences?

I certainly don't think they should be imprisoned for it. It serves no purpose. Society may say "The dead person can't enjoy their life any more, and you shouldn't either", but the concept of an eye for an eye never sat well with me.

[nataliam1976]

Originally Posted by merika

Nat - I think you meant to say more forgivable, not less. I think when a death by murder or manslaughter occurs what people commonly and self-righteously call "justice" isn't really justice for the victim or the perpetrator. Face it, the victim is dead. The perpetrator, if the death was accidental, gets locked up for a period of time. What's the point? IF the death was not intended, and the person is not a serial killer what is the point in jailing a person for an length of time? There can be a lot more productive ways for a person to pay back society for such a mistake. In my opinion justice in such situations is more for the appeasement of the victim's family and society in general rather than a study of the effectiveness of the form of punishment for the perpetrator. That is why there is leniency towards parents...because of the assumption that the pain that will be directed towards someone else who killed their child will be directed toward themselves, if they were the accidental cause of the death. And to all the people who jump on the bandwagon saying someone should be locked up...what's the point of locking someone up unless they are a menace to society? Is it like a bigger version of a time-out or something, which is why everyone says it's fine?? If I were a mother and I accidentally killed my child, being locked up and solitary would be infinitely more preferable than having to go out in society, give talks to people and tell them "I killed my child and it was an accident".

Yes, I meant more forgivable, thanks merika ( thats what happens when you write serious posts while hiding your screen from your manager´s view ).

I think accidental has a lot of meanings, for example if someone drives obeying the rules and another car speeding crashes into theirs and the speeding car´s driver dies as a result of injuries, then I think its pure accident and there should be no consequences for the person obeying the rules ( I know that in Poland you used to or still are liable in some way in such situation which i find ridiculous). But if you are responsible for someone/something and you forget about your responsibility, then its negligence, even though not intentional, and should be punished in some way. Otherwise every freaking one everywhere will start explaining everything by accidental forgetfulness, absent mindness and so on and just go on their merry way. ( speaking in general here).

I also dont think that everyone means that the parents in such situations should be locked up and thats the only way to go. But many of those parents didnt even get community service, nothing (even the woman who as her coworkers and friends testified had left her child a good few times in the car and had forgotten about him before the worst happened) - and I dont believe that would happen if it was for example somebody from further family or a nanny.

I still dont like the idea that because parents who caused it as a rule will feel more pain when that happens than a care taker who caused it, the leniency should take place. How do you measure pain and suffering anyway?

[nataliam1976]

Originally Posted by chag

The mother had consequences, is it that it wasn't prison time? If it were truely accidental I think the sentence this mother was given or something similar would be enough. Prison should be for those more deserving, like those that would take a childs life gleefully

My question was what if it wasnt a parent and the death was accidental.

[nataliam1976]

Originally Posted by merika

I certainly don't think they should be imprisoned for it. It serves no purpose. Society may say "The dead person can't enjoy their life any more, and you shouldn't either", but the concept of an eye for an eye never sat well with me.

I am not saying it has to be prison, but since many parents in this situation dont have any sort of legal consequences, I am wondering if it should apply to non parents as well, then.

[chag]

Originally Posted by nataliam1976

My question was what if it wasnt a parent and the death was accidental.

My answer would be the same. I see no reason to waste tax payers money on prison when it could be put to better use in educating and preventitive measures. As I see it the only thing that person wants to do is keep it from happening to anyone else. The efforts should go on that direction IMO

[nataliam1976]

Originally Posted by chag

Look at it this way. This mothers every waking moment is seeing the whole incident in her mind forever and ever. When she goes to sleep she sees it. I imagine the dreams about it are horrific. I know that's not as rough physically as being in prison but don't you think it's bad enough? Seeing your baby dead in your minds eye forever and not being able to save her? For me I'd rather lay down and die

I think there are a lot wonderful, commited mums here who love their kids and cant imagine a situation where people are negligent towards their own kids, because they didnt really want them in the first place or have their priorities screwed up or a hundred other reasons and wont always go through what you are describing here.

[nataliam1976]

Originally Posted by chag

My answer would be the same. I see no reason to waste tax payers money on prison when it could be put to better use in educating and preventitive measures. As I see it the only thing that person wants to do is keep it from happening to anyone else. The efforts should go on that direction IMO

OK, thanks, Just let me clarify I didnt necessarily mean prison by consequences, community service for example isnt wasting taxpayers money, or is it?

[chag]

Originally Posted by nataliam1976

OK, thanks, Just let me clarify I didnt necessarily mean prison by consequences, community service for example isnt wasting taxpayers money, I think.

No community service would be what I think could be a good way for them to help. Prison would be a waste, there are plenty of more deserving people for prison.

[chag]

Originally Posted by nataliam1976

I think there are a lot wonderful, commited mums here who love their kids and cant imagine a situation where people are negligent towards their own kids, because they didnt really want them in the first place or have their priorities screwed up or a hundred other reasons and wont always go through what you are describing here.

No you're right. As unthinkable as it may be there are mothers who are not deserving the gift of a child

[nataliam1976]

Originally Posted by chag

No community service would be what I think could be a good way for them to help. Prison would be a waste, there are plenty of more deserving people for prison.

still talking non parents? just double checking

[chag]

Originally Posted by nataliam1976

still talking non parents? just double checking

Yes IF it were truly an accident I don't see the reason for prison

[Megs]

I really can't wrap my head around how someone could forget their child in their car. Forget them?!

Yes, if that was truly accidentally that mother will live in pain FOREVER. A kind of pain I can not imagine and never want to imagine. It would be a horrible life that I would never want. I guess what people are saying though is that just because that will be painful for her - does it mean she should not have any other punishment. I really don't know.

Her proposal sounds desperate to me. Should we have to let technology run our lives in a way that our car alerts us that there is a child in it because we can't even remember that?? I don't doubt that with time something like this will be developed, but shouldn't we all take more responsibility? Personally I find it sad that we have to try to say that technology should be there to remind us that a living, breathing, being is in the car. Could it be helpful to many, I suppose so (which I still find pretty sad), but I just feel like the responsibility is being taken away.

[nataliam1976]

Originally Posted by chag

Yes IF it were truly an accident I don't see the reason for prison

Oh LOL Im sorry we seem to be misunderstanding each other. Lest forget about prison, i agree with you on this one. I am asking because you said that no community service would be a good way to help them ( non parents), and before that you said that a punishment similar to what the mum from this thread got ( ie. community service) would be enough for non parents. So it just seems contradictory to me.