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merika · Jun 15th, 2009, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by BagLadie

While I can't imagine forgetting my child, my heart goes out to anyone this happens to. I am not sure what to think. Just so sad all around.

There are so many other accidents that happen. I was recently reading about how there were so many instances of parents accidentally backing over their toddlers /shorter kids when they were reversing SUVs, and how car manufacturers were modifying mirrors, cameras and warning signals because of this.

http://www.kidsandcars.org/news/CNNS...icle110705.pdf

Again, the parents could be accused of neglect, charged for manslaughter and so on, but there should be an effort to do as much as possible both awareness and mechanical safety to prevent even a single death from happening.

kroquet · Jun 15th, 2009, 02:45 PM

Again, I am not unsympathetic to any of the parents. AS a Mom, Grandmom and someone who has experienced the loss of a baby, I can understand some of the pain, but it does not diminish the repsonsibilty of forgetting about your child. Personally, I don't know how you would ever overcome that. That said, being a Mom, I still can't see how anyone could forget about your baby in the car. If I am driving alone and have to make a quick stop, I still throw my arm to the side!

I've done that to my poor dog, too.

Roo · Jun 15th, 2009, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by kroquet

Again, I am not unsympathetic to any of the parents. AS a Mom, Grandmom and someone who has experienced the loss of a baby, I can understand some of the pain, but it does not diminish the repsonsibilty of forgetting about your child. Personally, I don't know how you would ever overcome that. That said, being a Mom, I still can't see how anyone could forget about your baby in the car. If I am driving alone and have to make a quick stop, I still throw my arm to the side!

I've done that to my poor dog, too.

I don't think any of us are unsympathetic

My issue is that putting alarms on car seats removes responsibility from the parent to make sure the child is out of the car. Yes, it may save lives, but unfortunately I also see it leaving the door open for big money lawsuits if the device somehow fails. THAT is the issue with me, along with just the general disconnect people these days seem to have around personal responsibility to begin with.

HauteMama · Jun 15th, 2009, 03:07 PM

The more I think about it, the more I think that carseat alarms really aren't that different from carseats or other safety measures. I am sure that if a workable system can be implemented, it will. Someone will see an opportunity to make a profit. We have all sorts of child-safety devices, and yes, people sue when they fail. Like the bath seats with the suction cups on the bottom were recalled because someone left their baby alone in the tub, the suction cups came undone and the seat "failed". Nevermind that the first rule of bathing a baby is that you NEVER leave a child alone in a tub, but they blamed the seat. As far as I know, this has not stopped other companies from continuing to make bath seats for babies.

Likewise, if a carseat alarm failed I don' think all companies would stop making them. I am not sure how workable they would be, though. If they went off as soon as the engine was off, they would often wake a baby (which wouldn't matter if it would save lives), but if there was a pause then a person could leave the car without ever hearing the alarm. As a parent who has never left her children in a car, I would be upset if these were standard and my baby had to be woken by an alarm everytime the car stopped! So many people drive their babies around just to get them to sleep that I imagine the alarms would be turned off a LOT.

Full responsibility lies with the parents, but I guess any and all safety devices that save lives are a good thing. Like I said, I can just see them being intentionally deactivated a LOT.

Roo · Jun 15th, 2009, 03:14 PM

^^ Great points.

I just remembered something: I know that in my car, the front seat has a weight sensor. If there is less than a certain amount of weight on the seat, the airbag disables, that way children can ride in front. Older cars don't have this but eventually as the cars that do begin to age, hopefully we'll see less of this as more children will be able to ride in the front seat again.

shy*violet · Jun 15th, 2009, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by amanda

Just a little reminder - just because you may disagree with someone on the principals behind a situation, doesn't mean the people you disagree with are heartless, unsympathetic, or deserving of condescension. I don't think anyone here is saying that there's no tragedy in a baby dying needlessly and I don't think there's any need for the tone that some of these posts have taken.

True True

Bella · Jun 15th, 2009, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by HauteMama

The more I think about it, the more I think that carseat alarms really aren't that different from carseats or other safety measures. I am sure that if a workable system can be implemented, it will. Someone will see an opportunity to make a profit. We have all sorts of child-safety devices, and yes, people sue when they fail. Like the bath seats with the suction cups on the bottom were recalled because someone left their baby alone in the tub, the suction cups came undone and the seat "failed". Nevermind that the first rule of bathing a baby is that you NEVER leave a child alone in a tub, but they blamed the seat. As far as I know, this has not stopped other companies from continuing to make bath seats for babies.

Likewise, if a carseat alarm failed I don' think all companies would stop making them. I am not sure how workable they would be, though. If they went off as soon as the engine was off, they would often wake a baby (which wouldn't matter if it would save lives), but if there was a pause then a person could leave the car without ever hearing the alarm. As a parent who has never left her children in a car, I would be upset if these were standard and my baby had to be woken by an alarm everytime the car stopped! So many people drive their babies around just to get them to sleep that I imagine the alarms would be turned off a LOT.

Full responsibility lies with the parents, but I guess any and all safety devices that save lives are a good thing. Like I said, I can just see them being intentionally deactivated a LOT.

Well said.

Bella · Jun 15th, 2009, 04:25 PM

I don't think anyone here is unsympathetic or any more or less compassionate than myself. I hope what I said did not add to that feeling as that was not my intention at all. I wasn't referring to anyone in particular or even this thread in particular. I made a broad statement that was really about reactions we hear from others sometimes like, need a tissue? feel better? when a person has a heartfelt reaction to something, a dig. This is a passionate topic for everyone. I don't agree with everyone and that's OK. I'm open and enjoy hearing other perspectives. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

kattykay · Jun 15th, 2009, 04:45 PM

The only thing I disagree with in this whole thing is that I dont think anyone shuold have to be reminded to take your kid out of the car. That to me seems a little ridiculous.

BagLadie · Jun 15th, 2009, 06:30 PM

My first instinct too was anger at the mother. But then I just felt complete sadness for the baby...and the mother. It wasn't intentional and can you only imagine what she is going through?

I am not sure what I think the punishment should be - but I do think living with herself the rest of her life is probably the worst punishment ever.

Maybe just getting the word out and having people be more aware.....slow down and THINK. I have done mindless things in the past - none as detrimental as this - but who the hell am I to judge another?

I can't let my mind go to what the baby went through. And I can't let my mind go through what the mother will go through everyday for the rest of her life. Like I said before, my heart goes out to all involved.

Odette · Jun 15th, 2009, 09:49 PM

Phew I just read this whole thread...

Now, I'm not a mother, but I would like to be one. I'm going to be a working mom - where I live, there is no way I can give up my career and be a stay at home mom and be able to afford to raise a child the way I'd like to. So I'm going to be one of those parents that is rushing from home, to daycare, to work, back to daycare, and back home every weekday. I can't fathom ever leaving a child in the car - but clearly, it happens.

My thought is that there is a way to create something of an alarm or warning for parents without opening up the company to a myriad of lawsuits. Just like the disclaimer of "caution: coffee is hot" or "Do not leave child unattended" or "Do not use in the bathtub" - there has to be a way to make it safer. Does that remove the negligence for a parent who does leave their child in the car? No. But it does lessen the chance of that happening.

I'm not a lawyer but if I was an expert in product liability I would help a child safety seat company create something like this. If it saves one life, it's worth it.

Someone said that no parent should ever have to be reminded to take a child out of a car. I completely agree. I also think that no one should have to be reminded not to use a hairdryer in the bathtub, or that coffee can be too hot to drink sometimes, or that you need to put your seatbelt on. Clearly, some people do need reminders.

Pursegrrl · Jun 15th, 2009, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by ImASadGiraffe

Someone said that no parent should ever have to be reminded to take a child out of a car. I completely agree. I also think that no one should have to be reminded not to use a hairdryer in the bathtub, or that coffee can be too hot to drink sometimes, or that you need to put your seatbelt on. Clearly, some people do need reminders.

Totally agree, Giraffe...plus the chainsaw "don't stop with your hand or genitals." Puhleeze.

About exactly 5 years ago my cousin lost her youngest son in a drowning accident at their family cabin on the lake. He was just over 2 and it happened on Father's Day of all days. He didn't have a life jacket on as he was just playing on the lawn. Fast forward a few moments with no one watching and he got out onto the dock (no one knew at the time) and fell into the water. He was under water for too long before they finally found him and he had massive brain damage. After a week on life support, they decided to let him go. I hope I never have to go to a child's funeral ever again.

My family will never get over this tragedy. But we certainly wouldn't DREAM of suing anyone or placing blame outside of that circle of family who was there that day. It was a horrific lapse in keeping an eye on little R and we'll carry that with us forever. <miss you tons, my little man>.

chag · Jun 15th, 2009, 10:30 PM

Oh wow :( that's just tragic PG. My heart goes out to you

I know it's impossible to save everyone but if it's only a few babies it would be worth it

chag · Jun 15th, 2009, 10:32 PM

Great post IaSG

chag · Jun 15th, 2009, 10:41 PM

Actually there's a lot of great posts in here. I think what bothered me the most when I started reading this thread was the finger pointing and that the poor woman should take responsability for what she's done. When I read the original story you could almost hear what was in her heart and it was just really difficult to keep seeing posts that said it was all her fault and she should be imprisoned. Maybe it's just the underdog in me that thinks going through what she has is punishment enough

and that focusing on finding a solution so it never has to happen to another mother again should be priority kwim?

Jun 15th, 2009, 02:45 PM	#92
kroquet Menopausal M. O. B. Joined: Sep 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 9,437	Again, I am not unsympathetic to any of the parents. AS a Mom, Grandmom and someone who has experienced the loss of a baby, I can understand some of the pain, but it does not diminish the repsonsibilty of forgetting about your child. Personally, I don't know how you would ever overcome that. That said, being a Mom, I still can't see how anyone could forget about your baby in the car. If I am driving alone and have to make a quick stop, I still throw my arm to the side! I've done that to my poor dog, too.
	__________________ Current Wishlist - Absolutely nothing!!!

Jun 15th, 2009, 03:07 PM	#94
HauteMama Member Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,829	The more I think about it, the more I think that carseat alarms really aren't that different from carseats or other safety measures. I am sure that if a workable system can be implemented, it will. Someone will see an opportunity to make a profit. We have all sorts of child-safety devices, and yes, people sue when they fail. Like the bath seats with the suction cups on the bottom were recalled because someone left their baby alone in the tub, the suction cups came undone and the seat "failed". Nevermind that the first rule of bathing a baby is that you NEVER leave a child alone in a tub, but they blamed the seat. As far as I know, this has not stopped other companies from continuing to make bath seats for babies. Likewise, if a carseat alarm failed I don' think all companies would stop making them. I am not sure how workable they would be, though. If they went off as soon as the engine was off, they would often wake a baby (which wouldn't matter if it would save lives), but if there was a pause then a person could leave the car without ever hearing the alarm. As a parent who has never left her children in a car, I would be upset if these were standard and my baby had to be woken by an alarm everytime the car stopped! So many people drive their babies around just to get them to sleep that I imagine the alarms would be turned off a LOT. Full responsibility lies with the parents, but I guess any and all safety devices that save lives are a good thing. Like I said, I can just see them being intentionally deactivated a LOT.
HauteMama Member Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,829

Jun 15th, 2009, 03:14 PM	#95
Roo OP au courant Joined: Apr 2006 Location: Rue Roo Posts: 12,697	^^ Great points. I just remembered something: I know that in my car, the front seat has a weight sensor. If there is less than a certain amount of weight on the seat, the airbag disables, that way children can ride in front. Older cars don't have this but eventually as the cars that do begin to age, hopefully we'll see less of this as more children will be able to ride in the front seat again.
	__________________ When I started counting my blessings, my whole life turned around. --Willie Nelson

Jun 15th, 2009, 04:25 PM	#98
Bella Earth to Bella Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,347	I don't think anyone here is unsympathetic or any more or less compassionate than myself. I hope what I said did not add to that feeling as that was not my intention at all. I wasn't referring to anyone in particular or even this thread in particular. I made a broad statement that was really about reactions we hear from others sometimes like, need a tissue? feel better? when a person has a heartfelt reaction to something, a dig. This is a passionate topic for everyone. I don't agree with everyone and that's OK. I'm open and enjoy hearing other perspectives. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.
Bella Earth to Bella Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,347	__________________

Jun 15th, 2009, 04:45 PM	#99
kattykay sofa king sexy! Joined: Jun 2008 Location: new jersey Posts: 4,271	The only thing I disagree with in this whole thing is that I dont think anyone shuold have to be reminded to take your kid out of the car. That to me seems a little ridiculous.
	__________________ Some say the glass is half empty, Some say the glass is half full, I say "are you gonna drink that?"

Jun 15th, 2009, 06:30 PM	#100
BagLadie Got a handle on it Joined: Nov 2006 Location: Red Sox Nation Posts: 6,997	My first instinct too was anger at the mother. But then I just felt complete sadness for the baby...and the mother. It wasn't intentional and can you only imagine what she is going through? I am not sure what I think the punishment should be - but I do think living with herself the rest of her life is probably the worst punishment ever. Maybe just getting the word out and having people be more aware.....slow down and THINK. I have done mindless things in the past - none as detrimental as this - but who the hell am I to judge another? I can't let my mind go to what the baby went through. And I can't let my mind go through what the mother will go through everyday for the rest of her life. Like I said before, my heart goes out to all involved.
	__________________ If life hands you lemons, make a vodka and lemonade. Then use the rest on your elbows.

Jun 15th, 2009, 09:49 PM	#101
Odette Member Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,992	Phew I just read this whole thread... Now, I'm not a mother, but I would like to be one. I'm going to be a working mom - where I live, there is no way I can give up my career and be a stay at home mom and be able to afford to raise a child the way I'd like to. So I'm going to be one of those parents that is rushing from home, to daycare, to work, back to daycare, and back home every weekday. I can't fathom ever leaving a child in the car - but clearly, it happens. My thought is that there is a way to create something of an alarm or warning for parents without opening up the company to a myriad of lawsuits. Just like the disclaimer of "caution: coffee is hot" or "Do not leave child unattended" or "Do not use in the bathtub" - there has to be a way to make it safer. Does that remove the negligence for a parent who does leave their child in the car? No. But it does lessen the chance of that happening. I'm not a lawyer but if I was an expert in product liability I would help a child safety seat company create something like this. If it saves one life, it's worth it. Someone said that no parent should ever have to be reminded to take a child out of a car. I completely agree. I also think that no one should have to be reminded not to use a hairdryer in the bathtub, or that coffee can be too hot to drink sometimes, or that you need to put your seatbelt on. Clearly, some people do need reminders.
Odette Member Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,992	__________________

Jun 15th, 2009, 10:30 PM	#103
chag Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 7,806	Oh wow :( that's just tragic PG. My heart goes out to you I know it's impossible to save everyone but if it's only a few babies it would be worth it
chag Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 7,806	__________________ End of the road....

Jun 15th, 2009, 10:32 PM	#104
chag Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 7,806	Great post IaSG
chag Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 7,806	__________________ End of the road....

Jun 15th, 2009, 10:41 PM	#105
chag Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 7,806	Actually there's a lot of great posts in here. I think what bothered me the most when I started reading this thread was the finger pointing and that the poor woman should take responsability for what she's done. When I read the original story you could almost hear what was in her heart and it was just really difficult to keep seeing posts that said it was all her fault and she should be imprisoned. Maybe it's just the underdog in me that thinks going through what she has is punishment enough and that focusing on finding a solution so it never has to happen to another mother again should be priority kwim?
chag Member Joined: May 2006 Posts: 7,806	__________________ End of the road....

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