GAP children's sweatshop in New Delhi, India

[IntlSet]

Originally Posted by susieserb

Yes Caste (untouchables) may be deemed illigal but old traditions die hard especially in the rural areas. I too know many people from India per my job. They share that prejudices run very strong to this day. A culture that has a long history treating children (and adults) in this condition should not surprise you that the practice is viewed favorable even now. Also parents could forfeit their kids to sweat shops in order to eat. Prostition is wide spread with young girls for the same reason in India. Now I'm not justifying this action against children and I pray GAP reacts venemently to this practice. Like maybe move to another country or have company officials peruse the working conditions to prevent this kind of horror. More below. http://www.lotussculpture.com/bronze...ture_caste.htm

Susie, you do realize that just 60 years ago, children in the United States worked in factories under horrid conditions? We, too, have a long history of treating certain children and adults atrociously.

This is not a question about INDIA. This a question of a manufacturer that took advantage of children. Do not make this an issue about race.

Moving to another country would not solve this problem: people like you and me demand goods and we demand them at a rate and a price that is impossible to satisfy unless produced in countries like India, China, and Romania. It is not the countries themselves that are the problem: the problem is that GAP and other corporations do not keep an eye on how their goods are produced. If we know the nation's government itself does not does not enforce strict regulations on its businesses, then the onus falls upon the parent corporation to oversee the practices of its foreign manufacturers.

[kneehighz]

Originally Posted by susieserb

Yes Caste (untouchables) may be deemed illigal but old traditions die hard especially in the rural areas. I too know many people from India per my job. They share that prejudices run very strong to this day. A culture that has a long history treating children (and adults) in this condition should not surprise you that the practice is viewed favorable even now. Also parents could forfeit their kids to sweat shops in order to eat. Prostition is wide spread with young girls for the same reason in India. Now I'm not justifying this action against children and I pray GAP reacts venemently to this practice. Like maybe move to another country or have company officials peruse the working conditions to prevent this kind of horror. More below. http://www.lotussculpture.com/bronze...ture_caste.htm

Untouchables are not Castes, the caste system has four main castes and a fifth (or even the fourth for some) were the "untouchables". Like I said, some still believe in them and judge others by them. I do NOT agree with the statement that it is a culture that has a long history of treating people this way, and who said the practice was FAVORABLE? Even Wikipedia has a better explanation of castes than that website.

[kneehighz]

Originally Posted by IntlSet

Susie, you do realize that just 60 years ago, children in the United States worked in factories under horrid conditions? We, too, have a long history of treating certain children and adults atrociously. This is not a question about INDIA. This a question of a manufacturer that took advantage of children. Do not make this an issue about race. Moving to another country would not solve this problem: people like you and me demand goods and we demand them at a rate and a price that is impossible to satisfy unless produced in countries like India, China, and Romania. It is not the countries themselves that are the problem: the problem is that GAP and other corporations do not keep an eye on how their goods are produced. If we know the nation's government itself does not does not enforce strict regulations on its businesses, then the onus falls upon the parent corporation to oversee the practices of its foreign manufacturers.

Those in economically developed countries often forget their own history (or ignore it) and judge those developing countries who have mostly had a long history of colonization which throws the country out of whack (can't think of a better term). Many countries in the world only recently got their independence. It will be a while before things get under control. And this will be harder for them to do because they have more powerful countries in their way, which was not a problem for the present powerful countries because when they won their independence there was no one there to manipulate them.. Ok will someone rephrase that because my sentence isn't making sense Basically, the developed countries need to stop thinking about profit and take some responsibility.

[merika]

Originally Posted by susieserb

Yes Caste (untouchables) may be deemed illigal but old traditions die hard especially in the rural areas. I too know many people from India per my job. They share that prejudices run very strong to this day. A culture that has a long history treating children (and adults) in this condition should not surprise you that the practice is viewed favorable even now. Also parents could forfeit their kids to sweat shops in order to eat. Prostition is wide spread with young girls for the same reason in India. Now I'm not justifying this action against children and I pray GAP reacts venemently to this practice. Like maybe move to another country or have company officials peruse the working conditions to prevent this kind of horror. More below. http://www.lotussculpture.com/bronze...ture_caste.htm

I don't understand part of your explanation above. You say "Yes Caste (untouchables) may be deemed illigal ". Caste is not exactly the state of being an untouchable, but a social strata that has been operational for many hundred of years in South Asia. Discrimination on the basis of caste is illegal, yes. However, the article in itself has no mention of what caste the children are. For example, due to the current economic situations which are unlike those of a thousand years ago, children who are born of a higher caste may likely as not be sent out for employment because of financial necessity.

Whether caste prejudices run high or not is of no matter in this situation, and it is sometimes regrettable that people with just a little bit of knowledge about something i.e. "India has castes. Castes discriminate against some people" makes a sweeping implication to say "The GAP factory employed children of lower castes"!!!

Child labor and casteeism are both not good for any society, but implying as above that one is directly responsible for the other is a very uninformed and ignorant statement.

[lv_forever]

Caste system or not, child labor is a sad situation for many developing countries. We forget all too quickly that many countries, including European countries, including France and England, had a large child labor force for quite some time. I am not excusing child labor in any shape or form, just want to remind people that child labor is not about race/cultural issue.

We should be focusing on how these companies are turning blind eye to the situation, blaming contractors at the factories or claiming that they didn't know... GAP should be ashamed. It should not promote itself as a philanthropic company and gain sales from that image.

[susieserb]

Originally Posted by merika

I don't understand part of your explanation above. You say "Yes Caste (untouchables) may be deemed illigal ". Caste is not exactly the state of being an untouchable, but a social strata that has been operational for many hundred of years in South Asia. Discrimination on the basis of caste is illegal, yes. However, the article in itself has no mention of what caste the children are. For example, due to the current economic situations which are unlike those of a thousand years ago, children who are born of a higher caste may likely as not be sent out for employment because of financial necessity. Whether caste prejudices run high or not is of no matter in this situation, and it is sometimes regrettable that people with just a little bit of knowledge about something i.e. "India has castes. Castes discriminate against some people" makes a sweeping implication to say "The GAP factory employed children of lower castes"!!! Child labor and casteeism are both not good for any society, but implying as above that one is directly responsible for the other is a very uninformed and ignorant statement.

Gads I used the term loosely but I'm not uninformed or ignorant? Yes you are right, Castes encompasses all levels. I was referring to the untouchable level of Caste and assumed readers would understand that. I examplified this in the paranthese above?

GAP didn't hire the so called (and I'm assuming here) untouchables, a service utilized in India did. Gap hired this service to perform the menial labor of making their clothes. They are supposedly pleading ignorance to this situation....sort of like Walmart two years ago and the illegal Mexican immigrants. They were caged in hot stores without food or water to clean the facilities for like 12 hours straight. Walmart hired a service, the service used illegal immigrants. *Gasp?? This sort of thing can happen in America too*

Anyway the service in India I was theorising descriminated and utilized the untouchable sector of the Caste heirarchy because of their poverty and vunerable nature. I'm sorry but I do NOT think this is far fetched. Okay let's say they aren't untouchables, it really doesn't change things because they were treated as such, now weren't they?

[merika]

Originally Posted by susieserb

I'm sorry but I do NOT think this is far fetched. Okay let's say they aren't untouchables, it really doesn't change things because they were treated as such, now weren't they?

I don't mean to split hairs, but no, you don't have any idea of how untouchables are and have been treated, and cannot compare extremely bad labor conditions to the way untouchables are or were treated in India.

In many Asian societies untouchables are those who engage in the disposal of animal and human flesh. Citing this reason, they are not allowed to drink from the same water supply as other castes. If a shadow of an untouchable falls on a person of a higher caste, the person of the higher caste considers themselves 'dirtied' and has religious rituals to purify themselves. If a person of a higher caste is sitting on a chair, they cannot sit at an equal level. They must sit on a low bench or a stool.

In fact, the treatment of untouchables is not actually bad labor conditions, but more or less similar to the way the slaves were treated before the Civil War...disregarding the slavery aspect, they had their own society, their own rites and rituals, but they were not treated as equals in 'white' society. If there had been no emancipation and society had gone on the same way in the South for several hundred years more, there may have been a similar caste system between the races.

Bad labor and child labor conditions exist in many places other than India, and is not directly related to the caste system. You cannot equate them at all.

[susieserb]

I know what an untouchable use to do. "Works" of that class is now considered illegal but predjudices still run far and deep and children or families from this "class" are highly descriminated against, especially in rural areas in India (hummm, lots of rural areas in India).

This discussion is about splitting hairs. The bottom line, where you have poverty you're going to have child labor some good, most NOT. The poorer and deprived the culture the uglier the situation becomes for their offspring. These kids in India were treated subhuman, like an untouchable. I was throwing out a theory not wanting to start a fire storm. Sorry........

[Roo]

With all due respect to the points being made, I am concerned this thread is getting off-track. Let's focus on the labor issues here if we can so we can avoid protracted arguing. Thanks.

That much said, I think that as Americans we enjoy a great standard of living due to cheap goods that are manufactured overseas. I can remember as a teenager buying shoes made in Italy that cost $60. In the late 70's, that was a LOT OF MONEY. Now I can get similar shoes made in China for half that price. I think about this a lot when I am buying things. I think this issue is about human rights on MANY LEVELS. These labor and manufacturing practices have also eliminated millions of jobs here in America and destroyed families who depended on those jobs for generations.

[GUCCI_COOCHIE]

This is why I refuse to shop At Gap, Old Navy and Banana.

[Speedy]

Very interesting thread, and even the posts going off-topic were very educational to me, I thank those who posted.

One of the nice things about living in a "hippie" town, I can get, for a reasonable price, clothing, foods, utensils, blankets, etc that were all manufactured in my county, and not by children. I refuse to wear clothing made by any store or supplier who manufactures thier items elsewhere. Yes, it costs more, but I also discovered they are better made, last longer and therefor, in the long run, saves me money.

It's sad, it really is. In our quest to own as much as we can, we forget who's blood, sweat and tears created it.

[Jahpson]

my co-worker jokes "there keeping them out of trouble" (jokes)

no but seriously, thats horrible. glad I dont shop at the Gap.

[dr. twiggers]

I really think that GAP is the tip of the iceberg and that there are many other large corporations out there doing this.

Here is Gap's response to the 10/28 allegations:

Gap Inc. Issues Statement on Media Reports on Child Labor
SAN FRANCISCO -- October 28, 2007 -- In response to media reports issued today, Gap Inc. (NYSE: GPS) issued a statement clarifying information surrounding a UK media report on the use of child labor in an unauthorized facility that produced a single product for Gap.

Earlier this week, the company was informed about an allegation of child labor at a facility in India that was working on one product for GapKids. An investigation was immediately launched. The company noted that a very small portion of a particular order placed with one of its vendors was apparently subcontracted to an unauthorized subcontractor without the company’s knowledge or approval. This is in direct violation of the company’s agreement with the vendor under its Code of Vendor Conduct.

Marka Hansen, president of Gap North America, made the following statement today:

“We strictly prohibit the use of child labor. This is a non-negotiable for us – and we are deeply concerned and upset by this allegation. As we’ve demonstrated in the past, Gap has a history of addressing challenges like this head-on, and our approach to this situation will be no exception.

“In 2006, Gap Inc. ceased business with 23 factories due to code violations. We have 90 people located around the world whose job is to ensure compliance with our Code of Vendor Conduct.

“As soon as we were alerted to this situation, we stopped the work order and prevented the product from being sold in stores. While violations of our strict prohibition on child labor in factories that produce product for the company are extremely rare, we have called an urgent meeting with our suppliers in the region to reinforce our policies.

“Gap Inc. has one of the industry’s most comprehensive programs in place to fight for workers’ rights overseas. We will continue to work with the government, NGOs, trade unions, and other stakeholder organizations in an effort to end the use of child labor.”

For more information on Gap Inc.’s social responsibility efforts, including detailed information on its ethical sourcing program, please see gapinc.com.

About Gap Inc.

Gap Inc. is a leading international specialty retailer offering clothing, accessories and personal care products for men, women, children and babies under the Gap, Banana Republic, Old Navy and Piperlime brand names. Fiscal 2006 sales were $15.9 billion. Gap Inc. operates more than 3,100 stores in the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada, France, Ireland and Japan. In addition, Gap Inc. is expanding its international presence with franchise agreements for Gap and Banana Republic in Asia and the Middle East.

taken from: http://www.gapinc.com/public/Media/P...or102807.shtml